Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

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Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  kainomarsh on Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:18 pm

Hey,

Does any one know what the valve clearance should be on my BRP with a fully open K&N Air filter, full aprok exhaust, 200 main jet, high comp piston ?

I know the standard clearances from the manual, but surely these should be tuned to compensate the bigger jetting / exhaust etc...

Ive owned the bike for 3/4 years now, but read something about checking the valves every 600 miles, Ive never checked them !

Also with regards to the clearance, is the less of the gap the wider the valves open ? ie 0.02 ...

Thanks
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:12 pm

Your 200 main jet sounds huuuuuuuge, it cannot run correctly - it's too rich!
Set clearance as per the book, and set them as often as the books says.
If you're gonna play with different clearances - smaller - then you may, but don't come crying here if you burn them - or have already because you've never checked them.

Also, a K&N is fine on the road - only!
In the dirt you'll ruin your engine because these filters pass fine dirt/dust/sand.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  kainomarsh on Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:03 pm

Thanks for getting back to us...

I know the main Jet sounds huge, I know standard is 175, when I bought the pig it had a 195 jet in, but has been Tuned / dyno'd at HMRacing in Kent, according to to their results they had put a 200 main jet in, so I put another 200 in and it runs fine.

What I dont quite understand is the manual say's 0.15+ -002 clearance, so not sure which direction to set them in ? This is something Ill be checking a lot of in the future...

The bike never goes of road, its too clean, dont want to scratch it up Smile

Thanks
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:46 pm

Kaino,

No offense intended at all, but have you ever set valve clearances? A variance of +/- 0.002 is a span of 4-thousands of a millimeter - how do you measure that? Any (absolutely any, even when a digital display lies to you!!!) vernier measures reliably to 5-hundreds - not 1-hundreds but FIVE, and you query 4 thousands??? To put this in perspective, this is a factor twelve and a half times less?
I'd say you'll be lucky to set them within 5 hundreds, but Honda knows this - it's fine!
As an aside, it is .15 and .2 mm, for in & out.
The given span (of 4 thou) is given to guideline anyone to get a certain 'feel' for the friction you will have to overcome to push/pull the feeler gauges, however experience here is king: not loose but not tight either.

You say your dyno-shop said a 200-jet was the way to go.
I say their lambda-probe it worn and/or out, because 200 is waaaaaay too big - and I believe you immediately if you say it runs well, because richer always does. Try another shop? You not might but will surprise yourself...
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  Mauser on Fri Apr 20, 2012 10:06 pm

kainomarsh wrote:Thanks for getting back to us...

I know the main Jet sounds huge, I know standard is 175, when I bought the pig it had a 195 jet in, but has been Tuned / dyno'd at HMRacing in Kent, according to to their results they had put a 200 main jet in, so I put another 200 in and it runs fine.

What I dont quite understand is the manual say's 0.15+ -002 clearance, so not sure which direction to set them in ? This is something Ill be checking a lot of in the future...

The bike never goes of road, its too clean, dont want to scratch it up Smile

Thanks
Those figures are normal engineering specs; basically means set to upper limit and beyond but never below bottom limit, they are intending you to set the gap to have clearance around the feeler gauge and not be forced in hence + 0.15 minus 0.002.

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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  Fuzzy Muzzy on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:04 pm

BuRP wrote:Your 200 main jet sounds huuuuuuuge, it cannot run correctly - it's too rich!
Set clearance as per the book, and set them as often as the books says.
If you're gonna play with different clearances - smaller - then you may, but don't come crying here if you burn them - or have already because you've never checked them.

Also, a K&N is fine on the road - only!
In the dirt you'll ruin your engine because these filters pass fine dirt/dust/sand.
are you sure about the K&N filter.. I travelled 15 000km through Nam, Bots, Malawi, Tanzania and Moz with one.. never an issue. If you have them oiled correctly they wil be fine offroad.. my 2c
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:39 pm

Yes, I'm sure - but check by finding same on the net, there's plenty.
The trick with cotton-gauze filters (like K&N) is to oil them(of course) and do NOT clean them too soon!
The accumulated dirt acts as an additional filter then, but, obviously, will restrict the airflow a bit more..... which then negates the fact that you have this type of filter, as the only advantage of them are a higher airflow - at cost of filtering capacity, logically.
So, keep your filter dirty offroad, you'll be fine-ish then. I rather ride with a kept-clean foam filter, they're the best compromise there is, and an airfilter always is a compromise.

Hey, I have on of these K&N's, but on my trackbike - nothing wrong with, but no dust there eh?
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:52 am

Hey BURP, do we have a link on how to do the vlave adjustment on our BRP? We are planning a weekend trip on the July 14 weekend and I would like to see if I can do mine. Please if you have so provide the link.

Thanks,

BM
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  xabntroop on Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:54 am

bikerman wrote:Hey BURP, do we have a link on how to do the vlave adjustment on our BRP? We are planning a weekend trip on the July 14 weekend and I would like to see if I can do mine. Please if you have so provide the link.

Thanks,

BM
http://issuu.com/xr650r/docs/honda_xr650r_service_manual_2000-2007?mode=embed&documentId=080207201915-a9614fa8a33e47dcb595719384785a5c&layout=white

I didn't see Burp get back to you yet and had this handy, hope it helps.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Thu Jul 05, 2012 7:17 pm

Missed this, sorry.
I herewith copy&paste what I wrote on another forum, because I'm unsure if Focker is going to fock me up if I link it ;-)

Make sure the engine is cold.
Take off tank, and wash the engine's top & framebits as the bare minimum.
Take off the valve covers first, then take out plug (so the small bolts cannot fall into the cylinder - duh).
Put bike on a stand (jack, not sidestand), and put it in 5th gear.
Rotate the rear wheel forward - on this, do not EVER rotate it backwards
or allow it to turn back (block it with a piece of wood through the
spokes or whatever) as even a little of this will mess with the
auto-decomp system on this bike which will lift an exhaust valve!! So no
'back', nothing!
Turn rearwheel fwd until you've convinced yourself that first the intakes go down, then up, and next the exhaust valves do ditto (hey, you said 'noobies' )
Turn even more forward, but maybe slower this time, until you actually
notice that at a certain point, just when the intakes come up again, the
exhaust valves ALSO start to move - which is correct, any 4stroke does
this, not to worry.
Now rotate the wheel slow, very slow, until the exhaust valves are just
about at their deepest point... then stop rotating, and block the wheel
if necessary.
Now adjust the intake valves as per below.
To adjust the exhaust valves you turn (again, always forward only) the
wheel until the intake valves are somewhere at their deepest point. As a
sidenote, the exhaust valves are more difficult to reach on this bike,
less handspace available.

Adjusting valves.
Valveplay is to be: Intake: 0.15mm (0.006"), Exhaust 0.20mm (0.008").
The valves to adjust will have some play, they are loose, which can be
felt, so check this, move the rocker up & down - see? If no play
make sure (by rotating rear wheel forward, see above) that the other valves are quite a bit down if not fully down. If this is the case but you still feel no play then know you did postpone adjusting for too long, the play's gone... which is a bad thing.
However, there normally is a bit of play.
Take the correct-thickness feeler gauge and make sure it is spotlessly
clean - then try to slide it inbetween rocker & valve. They slide-in
best sideways, but find your own best way.
If it goes in - just - and feels not too tight but also not too
loose (this is experience which noobies do not have, sorry, however they
can learn this by doing all this often) then that valve is set perfect.
If either too loose or when the feeler gauge won't go in, undo the
locking-nut with a ringspanner (10mm, spotlessly clean - and only morons
use open ended spanners) whilst holding the actual adjuster with a
well-fitting screwdriver (which also is spotlessly clean). The idea is
to loose the nut whilst the adjuster stays where it is. Once loose wind
the nut a half turn up (more loose).
Now turn the adjuster with the screwdriver-only (yes, the nut will also
turn) until the feeler gauge just goes in & and can be slid to &
fro - just, tot too loose, not too tight.
Now hold the adjuster into position with the screwdriver whilst you turn
the nut tight - of course by sliding the screwdriver through the
ringspanner. Watchitnow, this only sounds easy, but in practise the
adjuster wants to turn with the nut when tightening it - and it may not turn!
Try, fiddle & try again, but get the nut locked whilst the feeler
gauge still just slides inbetween the adjuster & rocker. If this is
the case then the valve is set correctly... so proceed with the other
one(s).
How much torque for those nuts? Never mind the manual, they must be
tight whilst not over-tightened (refer remark above regarding
experience), but basic gutfeel will get you there. MIND though, it is
less than the force you needed to loosen them in the first place! There
is oil now inbetween you see, so this lubes the lot now. Apply a bit
less for tightening than for taking them loose.

If this all reads daunting then relax, there's a way to check yourself.
Say you 'think' you set the In's to 0.15 - because this size feeler goes in.
Good - does the 0.20 also go in?
It should not, so if it does re-adjust that valve, but a notch tighter this time.
Got a 0.18 feeler in the set? This one should not go in either, however
with enough force one can do anything... or cut your fingers LOL


Once you get handier with this, here's an idea. Next time, before you loosen the nuts, you first measure what the actual play is!
You may want to write this down for later, may come in handy. Valves
'move' you see, they normally become tighter over time (due to wear),
and at a certain point in life this goes quick to fast even... and this point
you want to notice, before it get really expensive. This is the time
where you take the top off, however, with your new bike this is a
loooong way to go still.

Have fun doing this. If you really will be doing this for the first time
I'd advise to, after having adjusted all, rotate the wheel again a bit,
and then check your own settings. If done correct it all will be fine,
but this will give you piece of mind. Also check all nuts before you
close her up - and if you turn one then you must re-adjust that valve again.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:58 pm

Thanks Burp & XABNtroop! 2 thumbs
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:18 pm

Ok let me understand something here, I did my Valves on my KLR 250, is this the same on the Xr650? my question is somehow I was thinking that you have to use some round shims on our BRP, I think I read this somewhere here last year. just want to make sure, if this is just like the cars and like I did on my 250 then will be a piece of cake but if it is with the shims I have never done it before. Just need to confirm this.

Thanks.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:26 am

Zero shims BM, just tappets - a locknut on a threaded adjuster into the rocker.
'My' method works on any single, and I forgot to mention it is a completely different routine as what Honda (or any other manufacturer) prescribes, but it works well.
But, eh, you should already know this, as you've got your bike for a while already? Fooi man ;-)
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:24 am

Yes I got it may 2011 but not too much riding time since I was doing all the mods, stator, wiring etc.. so since I bought it I haven't adjust the valves, well with the winter here, there is not too much time to ride but I would like to check the valves (so I just need the wrench, gauges and a flat screw driver) like the old days ? and flush the forks, what type of oil should I use for the forks?
Shit I was tired and fall to sleep since 7 pm now I am awake can not go back to sleep LOL. 2 thumbs
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Fri Jul 06, 2012 10:17 pm

BM,

search for Borynack Fork Mod - it the stie's down try & retry, you might get through eventually. Do that, drilling & all, and fill with 2.5SAE weigth oil - which ain't easy to find so btw. Otherwise just flush and try what suits you, I'd say try 5SAE first - but mixing the oils, like a 10W & 5W 50% will give you a 7.5W, might give you better results. No fixed's here, see what you'll like.

And, I'm as useless as you are, 'scuse Squire, I also still have to do this mod to my forks. Crying or Very sad
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:39 am

Where should I look for this Borinack here on this forum or on google?
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  BuRP on Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:03 am

xr650r.us - site's down often but not always.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:56 am

Guys, sorry to sound so noobie and stupid but which valve are the exhaust and which are the intake? I was trying to get the bike at TDC with the mark but I found 2 marks which I think (not sure) one is for the exhaust and the other one is for the intake, so the first mark is it intake or exhaust? or is it better to do it without the valve cover and see when the valves are all the way down or up? in this case let say that the 2 valves in the front of the engine are the intake so when they are all the way close are they going to be up? please clarify so I can continue with my tune up. Thanks! 2 thumbs

guys never mind I found the borinack thread how to adjust the valves, thanks, anyway! cheers I'll be back after I adjust them and see how they are. I will let you know.
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Re: Tuned XR650R Valve clearance HELP ?!

Post  bikerman on Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:16 am

well sorry I couldn't come back last night but I wasn't focus on the job and I make such a mess taking the wrong side cover LOL! you know what happened then! cleaning all the oil that came out, well shit happens, I also did my plug, I haven't ride it yet but I start her up and sound goods, I need to clean my chain, it has sand on the links you can hear it, meantime I need to order a new one, I think I will go with the D.I.D one and 15/43 sprocket and see what happen with this set up. I am also thinking to do the HRC kit (piston 11:1 and the cam) I don't know what else should be involve on it, may be new clutch kit ( don't know what brand yet) I saw a barnett dirt clutch on one supermoto set up. well guys please let me know your thoughs on this one as usual this is the best web page for XR650R no doubts about it!! nice
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