need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

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need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Mon Jul 22, 2013 1:50 am

I'm working on converting my stock BRP to dual AC and DC with BD dual stator rewounded.

Got stucked in this handlebar switch from Leonelli Art. 074 PAT.


Switch has these wires in use:
-Green > Right blinkers
-Brown > Left blinkers
-Black > ground to blinkers
-Orange > flasher
-Black/White > Kill

Found Grey is going to Horn

"Un-used":
-Yellow
-Yellow/Green
-Green/Blue
-Red (which someone before split in two on the end and used for???)
-Light Blue (again,is split in two Dark Blue wires,used for???)





back side of it:


slider (connector):




Headlight is (and will be) fed from AC side.

Any ideas which is Low/High beam,running and what rest of the wires are for?

Off topic. I'm floating DC side (ground to neg. on battery only,leaving AC stock grounded to frame and such) and noticed horn switch button is grounded to handlebar,is that an issue? Do I have to float it or can I leave it grounded to handlebar?

Thanks
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Mon Jul 22, 2013 9:03 am

I would leave the kill switch going to ground (Handlebars) as the stator is tied to ground anyway; when the kill switch is pressed your taking the stator supply to the coil to ground and this kills the engine.
Going back to your switchgear I would suggest there will be a supply feed for the lights which will send power down the correct wire to light the main beam or dipped, lights are grounded by defalt.
Pretty sure the indicators are permantly earthed then power is fed to the flasher when the engine starts and then the switch lets this through to each set of indicators allowing them to flash, I used a Kawasaki flasher unit on my piggy which I needed to add an extra link at the flasher unit to feed both sides.
Your best bet is to try and work on 1 part at a time otherwise you can get a bit lost lol.

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Tue Jul 23, 2013 4:14 pm

Thanks Mauser,
yes kill will be same (AC grounded).Just think Horn has to have different switch as it can't be AC grounded,if I'm correct (doing stock AC and floating DC for horn,blinkers,etc)
I don't understand lights thou. They will be AC fed. Means juice from BLUE and ground from GREEN stock wires. How do I wire it with switch? I don't get it how it works. I had to order BD headlight which is going to have 3 connectors,assuming one ground and low/high and also 4th for running light?
Totally new at electricity Frustrated 

Mauser wrote:I would leave the kill switch going to ground (Handlebars) as the stator is tied to ground anyway; when the kill switch is pressed your taking the stator supply to the coil to ground and this kills the engine.
Going back to your switchgear I would suggest there will be a supply feed for the lights which will send power down the correct wire to light the main beam or dipped, lights are grounded by defalt.
Pretty sure the indicators are permantly earthed then power is fed to the flasher when the engine starts and then the switch lets this through to each set of indicators allowing them to flash, I used a Kawasaki flasher unit on my piggy which I needed to add an extra link at the flasher unit to feed both sides.
Your best bet is to try and work on 1 part at a time otherwise you can get a bit lost lol.
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:11 pm

Lights will need a common ground, then if your running from AC then send AC to the switch and the switch itself will send power to the main/low beam as required, the side light or running light should or could be wired to the tail light which is always on. Depends on how you want the lights to work or you could take the side lights from the same feed which comes from the switch...power will go to the side light when selected, and then to main/dipped when they are turned on.
Stock wiring means the rear light is always on; if you want to stop this you will need to send the same feed which feeds the side light back down the bike to the taillight.
Your horn and blinkers will be tricky as they are DC and since your trying to use the same switch I doubt they will work....thinking about it your best to ignore the above and run the lights and all electrics from your rectified DC source, take the 12Volt AC supply which comes from the regulator and take it to a rectifier then from here feed your switch. Will make things a lot easier Smile.....I like things dead simply.
Before your brought anything you should have got a UK spec stator and loom and just swapped all over and then just plug blinkers / horn in and they would work.....lol.

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:18 am

Mauser wrote:Lights will need a common ground, then if your running from AC then send AC to the switch and the switch itself will send power to the main/low beam as required,
I don't think so. Each low/high/running has its own wire.I wish it would be that easy.

the side light or running light should or could be wired to the tail light which is always on. Depends on how you want the lights to work or you could take the side lights from the same feed which comes from the switch...power will go to the side light when selected, and then to main/dipped when they are turned on.
What's the side light?

Stock wiring means the rear light is always on; if you want to stop this you will need to send the same feed which feeds the side light back down the bike to the taillight.
Your horn and blinkers will be tricky as they are DC and since your trying to use the same switch I doubt they will work....thinking about it your best to ignore the above and run the lights and all electrics from your rectified DC source, take the 12Volt AC supply which comes from the regulator and take it to a rectifier then from here feed your switch. Will make things a lot easier Smile.....I like things dead simply.
I want to keep lights on AC (in case batt. die),rest (tail,blinkers,horn,what have you)to DC.

Before your brought anything you should have got a UK spec stator and loom and just swapped all over and then just plug blinkers / horn in and they would work.....lol.

Smile  yea,but I'm in California my friend BRP smile

I just ordered L switch,at least I can find wire diagram for that one Frustrated 
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:48 am

I don't think so. Each low/high/running has its own wire.I wish it would be that easy. wrote:

I think your condused with my post yes each light function will have it's own wire but you will need 1 common feed to the switch +12volts then the switch will send this power down the correct wire to light the correct bulb.
All you need is a tester and a few minutes to work out which is the feed wire to the switch and then simply work out which wire feeds the side light (Running Light) as you call it and dipped/main beam. The picture showing the slide part of the switch with the brass terminals with 3 pronges obviously slides over the circuit board and makes contact with different tracks as it moves, I would guess 1,2 & 3 are your lighting wires.
Still confused about tail light and front front running light, as switch will turn off front running light but tail light will remain always on...not normal over here, lights off means just that all go off lol.
Still think your better off running the tail light from the front running light which is fed from your switch....but your bike razz 

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Wed Jul 24, 2013 8:37 pm

Mauser wrote:

I think your condused with my post yes each light function will have it's own wire but you will need 1 common feed to the switch +12volts then the switch will send this power down the correct wire to light the correct bulb.
All you need is a tester and a few minutes to work out which is the feed wire to the switch and then simply work out which wire feeds the side light (Running Light) as you call it and dipped/main beam. The picture showing the slide part of the switch with the brass terminals with 3 pronges obviously slides over the circuit board and makes contact with different tracks as it moves, I would guess  1,2 & 3 are your lighting wires.
Still confused about tail light and front front running light, as switch will turn off front running light but tail light will remain always on...not normal over here, lights off means just that all go off lol.
Still think your better off running the tail light from the front running light which is fed from your switch....but your bike razz 

Thanx Mauser,

Yes I confused it.Sorry I'm new at electric stuff.I don't have a tester nor I know how to use it beat head  Shocked 
Yes you are right with that brass terminal,that's why I posted picture of it hoping someone can figure out from circuit board and terminal which is which light.
I didn't think about that tail,thanks bow 
You are right,tail to the running light on switch.Does it mean brake light as well?Probably easier Question 

Well now I have that L switch on the way. I think that one is more reliable and I've seen wire diagram for that one.And I know someone (on other forum) who uses it, hoping PM him would help.Only switch doesn't have a kill.

I still have to figure out where to wire BD key switch.Hopefully I can use it to turn off battery as well,so it doesn't get drained.Also it will block ignition too.

Thank you for your time 2 thumbs 
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:08 pm

I don't think the key switch will also be good for the battery, all it does is break the ignition feed to the coil....well i think it would it might just take the wire to ground and act as a kill switch. If you have a double pole switch then you could use 1 set of contacts for the ignition switch and the other set to disconnect the battery but you will need to make sure the contacts will handle the load your putting through the battery...in other words if your electrical battery side uses 3 amps make sure the contacts on the switch will handle 3 amps or you will need to add a relay and more comlications lol.
You really do need a cheap continuity tester you cna make 1 with a battery and a bulb and some wire.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Continuity-Tester-1-x-AA-Silverline-675110-/221257892306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3383ff81d2

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Fri Jul 26, 2013 10:12 pm

Mauser wrote:I don't think the key switch will also be good for the battery, all it does is break the ignition feed to the coil....well i think it would it might just take the wire to ground and act as a kill switch. If you have a double pole switch
yes I found this tiny double pole switch with wierd key and cap for $20 at local electric shop,they said it should be ok with 1.5 A (my batt. is only 700mA)

then you could use 1 set of contacts for the ignition switch and the other set to disconnect the battery but you will need to make sure the contacts will handle the load your putting through the battery...in other words if your electrical battery side uses 3 amps make sure the contacts on the switch will handle 3 amps or you will need to add a relay and more comlications lol.
do I still need relay? about the battery side use,do you mean how much Amp battery is or how much load there will be used? scratch  newbie
You really do need a cheap continuity tester you cna make 1 with a battery and a bulb and some wire.....
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Continuity-Tester-1-x-AA-Silverline-675110-/221257892306?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3383ff81d2
Thanks for the link,and help nice
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:46 pm

Shouldn't need a relay for a such a small battery, however if the battery only produces 700ma it won't power your lights for long with the engine off before going flat ?.
A 35watt headlight will only last about 14 minutes ?...
35 watt bulb running @12 volts is 3 Amp's ~ 0.7/amp divided by 3 is 0.23 of an hour or 13.8 minutes is that long enough to pass any regulations ?.

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:34 am

Mauser wrote:Shouldn't need a relay for a such a small battery, however if the battery only produces 700ma it won't power your lights for long with the engine off before going flat ?.
A 35watt headlight will only last about 14 minutes ?...
35 watt bulb running @12 volts is 3 Amp's ~ 0.7/amp divided by 3 is 0.23 of an hour or 13.8 minutes is that long enough to pass any regulations ?.
Lights will be on AC side (no power with engine off,but also still ON in case battery dies banana ) together with stock ignition.
DC will be (some day hehe) Tail light,blinkers,horn

Now I'm stack on switch and fuse box. What would you run through fuse box,and how big each fuse?
Switch is another story. Man this thing is complicated affraid  AC and DC, floating DC (negative to battery only). Horn on switch seems to me is grounded to handlebar,horn should be on batt. neg. thou. I'm getting bit lost hehe scratch 

I will get there.
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  Mauser on Sat Jul 27, 2013 8:37 am

Fuses are there to protect the cable between the battery/source of power and the item they are supplying, if your fuses are too high then the cable could burn out and too low and they will keep popping. If your headlight in normal condition uses 3 amp's then you will need a 3 amp fuse, I'm pretty sure the manual states the wires size and a quick Google will tell you if the cable is suitable for the power your putting down it....look at it this way jump leads to start your car are really thick as they need to handle about 400amps cranking a car engine.
Not sure how your going to wire the lights to run off AC and DC....DC most of the time and the battery being charged by the AC rectified side then when (if) the battery goes flat your hoping to carry on riding with the AC supplying the lights...this is why I said originally I would run the whole bike of DC, that way you could do what you want.
Won't be around for a week as going on holiday but good luck Smile.

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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  BuRP on Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:05 pm

Mauser wrote:If your headlight in normal condition uses 3 amp's then you will need a 3 amp fuse

Umm, ah, eh, erm, no... you'd need a ~5 Amp then. A fuse operating at it's limit will get damn hot, near melting temp, and this ain't good. Besides, it then also starts to act as a resistor (they do anyway) so the user, headlight in this case, gets less juice than it wants to draw. And analogue on this, on (cold!) startup it will draw considerably more juice, a spike if you want - which would blow a quick-reacting fuse ('fast blow') there & then.
So, you need a 'slow blow' type fuse on top of all (luckily automotive types are!), and in general a bit bigger than what the nominal current draw is.
Regarding thickness of wires used, a bit thicker than the calculated minimum is better, again for the resistive values (which all conductors have, also wires).
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Sat Jul 27, 2013 4:26 pm

Mauser,
thanks for explaining and have a nice vacation 2 thumbs 

BuRP,
thanks for reply. Does light needs fuse? Stock 35W didn't have any,now 55W halogen - still on AC side. DC side has 15A fuse inline (BajaDesigns rectifier wired). Do I still need fuses? Confusing scratch 
Yes I remember reading fuse should be bit bigger than juice.
Do LED blinkers and Tail with such a small A need fuses as well? Horn?

What would you (or have) fused?

Newbie converting BRP to AC/DC lol!

Thank You both!
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  BuRP on Sun Jul 28, 2013 11:13 am

I'd fuse anything running off a battery. If the light is AC & always-on then no real need.
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Sun Jul 28, 2013 5:06 pm

Thanks BuRP,

here is the diagram that I'm using,except I don't have a fan,GPS,grips (yet):


sounds like I should change 15A main Fuse to 10A and add small ones,1 for blinkers,1 for tail,1 for horn (really?). How do I find out how much,none of the boxes from each item stated how much A they take.I learned now that to find A is Watt/Volt=A and fuse should be bit bigger. Do I need some kind of electric meter? (newbie learning)
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  BuRP on Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:38 pm

Good diagram but note it has a small error in: the ground of the gripheaters (DC) is connected to the 'ground' of the headlight (AC) hence this is wrong.
No fuse on hooter neither blinkers, especially not when you fuse the DC-feed at the battery. This diagram has dual fuses for dual feeds, good practice.
A DMM (Digital Multi Meter) is a must-have I think, good for measuring AC & DC voltages, resistivity & continuity, and some allow you to measure amperage as well. Get one and get handy with it, you'll learn a lot using it if you're an inquisitive chap.
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:04 pm

Thanks BuRP,

yes those grips are wrong.The ground is actually connected to load on AC.The guy knows it.
Yes I really like his diagram,that's why I'm doing it his way.His user id is RideFreak @ ADVrider.com forum.
I should try to PM him,maybe he could tell me how he did it since it's his diagram BRP smile 

Yes I'm realizing I need to learn about whole electric realm study

added:getting there,slowly but for sure Bump


Last edited by baachor on Sun Jul 28, 2013 10:06 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : add)
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:44 am

getting there Bump 
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  BuRP on Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:07 pm

Nice bike!
Yip, Chris aka FideFreak is a good dude, and handy/clever in a wide field too. If you ask him very nicely he might send you info on his sandrail he built, and the pics prove he can build and he's a perfectionist.
You will learn whilst doing things, so git busy bru BRP smile 
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Re: need help with wires turn/horn/light switch

Post  baachor on Tue Jul 30, 2013 4:52 am

BuRP,
yes he seems knowledgeable. I PMed him and he helped me out. I'd do same if I could be of help nice 
Learning every day. Thanks for your time helping here .) And at ADVrider too 2 thumbs
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