Please help!

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Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:00 pm

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum. I need all the help I can get.....
I have owned my Xr650r for 2 yrs now and it's the best bike I've ever owned ( much better than my previous R1), it has ran like a dream until 2 weeks ago when riding to work it cut out, I then managed to restart her before cutting out 3 more times in the space of 1/2 a mile, I then pushed her all the way home.
I have checked the spark grounding the plug against the engine... I had very week and then no spark, i then tried a new spark plug but no spark. I have now purchased a multi meter to try and solve my problem, i have been prodding the coil, the spark plug getting all sorts of readings but it just as well be written in japanese, i know a little how to use the meter but really need a step by step guide on the correct procedure I need to follow and what readings I'm looking for to indicate what is wrong and what new electrical part I need to get. PLEASE BE VERY BASIC WITH ME AS I AM COMPLETELY USELESS WITH ELECTRICS ON MOTORCYCLES. I am from Plymouth in the uk.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Hew on Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:16 pm

The first thing I would do is to take off the seat, tank and headlamp housing and have a look at the wiring to see if any is shorting out. It will look a bit black wher it touches the frame. Next thing is to check all the connections and if they are OK I would disconnect the kill switch just to elliminate it as the cause. After that I would change the plug and plug cap before delving in any deeper.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Thanks for the quick reply Hew, my Xr650r doesn't have a kill.switch, I have an ignition barrel and key fitted for security reasons. I have the seat and tank removed, I have been prodding around with my new multi meter but in all honesty I don't know what readings I'm looking for. I need very basic step by step instructions on how to test the 1. ignition. 2. Coil. 3. Ht lead. 4. Spark plug. Plus what ohms setting to have the meter on and what ohms readings show that the item I'm checking is working fine or is in fact faulty.
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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:34 pm

Disconnect the kill-wire going to your ignition-lock...... is that better?
If so the lock's at fault.
The HT-coil sits agains the frame under the tank: undo the 2 bolts, clean the surfaces, lube with a thin smear of coppercompound/antiseize and remount - better?
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Re: Please help!

Post  Mauser on Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:31 pm

Hmmm weak spark as mentioned bad ground on the coil....again as mentioned disconnect wire to ignition switch all this does is take the coil to ground and kills the spark....no spark no start....no ride away theft.... BRP smile
Check wires coming from the stator....should loop up between carb and frame and plug under the seat, 6 wires going into a plug and socket pull this apart and check condition.
Unplug and check pins going into the CDI module again right where the regulator is under the seat...
Failing that push the bike to my place and we can sort it I'm in the midlands will expect you before summer Bump

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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:38 am

Mauser, thanks for the offer of fixing my poorly xr650r, I have already experienced pushing my true valentine almost 1 mile up a fairly steep hill back to my garage, Birmingham might be too far!
I'm thinking now that with the feedback from the Xr650r community to my desperate SOS that I'm going to have to take my beloved to a garage for a professional mechanic to solve my heart ache.
I'm not prepared to divorce over something trivial but will probably have to dig deep into my pockets, my local dealer must be cheaper than solicitors I'm guessing!!!
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Re: Please help!

Post  Mauser on Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:47 am

Have you checked all above ?. we can talk you through using your meter to check the coil etc...I can even phone you if needed ?

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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:00 am

1 thing you also should check (before divorcing and pushing etc) is the connector to the ignition module - which sits on top of the airbox ie under the seat.
Disconnect it, inspect & clean both parts to the T, then spray a little contact cleaner on both and reconnect.

This is a Honda, legendary for its reliability, so it probably is something simple....
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:06 am

Sorry for the delayed reply, work has got in the way of trying to fix my bike!
Update.. today I have checked all the electrical joints, sprayed them all with contact cleaner, whilst tracing the wire loom I found hidden tie wrapped to the frame behind the carburettor a small black switch, I believe its probably a kill switch, because I'm useless with wiring looms on any type of vehicle I left it well alone, I have taken some photos which I will try to upload onto this page. Just to update everyone who's kindly taken their time to help me...I have no spark what so ever when grounding the plug to the engine casing, I will try to upload some photos showing me pathetically trying to get some sort of reading on the multi meter.
Whilst kicking my bike over with the ignition key turned on my headlight bulb comes on very briefly, I'm presuming this means my ignition barrel is working fine. I have fitted a new coil with new HT lead and still no spark. I have checked the new and old plug and they both appear to be working fine.
Is there anyway that i can check or have the CDI unit checked to see if this is the rougue part. I don't mind buying a new CDI unit but want to be sure that I'm not wasting my money first.
Please help...
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:34 am

More technical help needed..... how do I upload photos from my phone onto this post?
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Re: Please help!

Post  Mauser on Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:41 am

You can either upload to the site using the little icon 6th from the right on the above menu or you need to use a hosting company like Photobucket to host the image then link from there to here....if your not tech savy you can always email them to me or if you have an iphone imessage them to me and I will host them for you.
That switch seems a likely area of concern.... BRP smile

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Re: Please help!

Post  Mauser on Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:20 am

Another double poster.....
https://www.thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1216830-honda-xr650r-no-spark/

I see their advice was no better than ours listen up

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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:45 am

Funny - I did post a reply yesterday but don't see it here?

Anyway, a repeat but shorter this time:
- take that 'hidden' switch out and just connect the wires..... got a spark now?

Edited: better is to take only the switch out and do NOT connect the wires - got spark?

- instead of using a plug use a screwdriver to check if you've got a spark, simply because even a new plug may be faulty
- if anybody can check what colour the killswitch-wire has in the OEM-loom then mention it here pls? This wire must NOT be connected at all, undo a connector/plug/why closest to the stator (ie 1rst opportunity)..... got spark now?
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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:48 am

Mauser wrote:That switch seems a likely area of concern

My money's on that it IS the problem!
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:36 am

I will be removing the switch an connecting the wires together a little later today, there are 2 wires going into and coming out of the switch, blue and red, both the red and blue wires travel from the main loom into the switch, the red wire travels directly to the coil onto the + connect whilst the blue wire travels back into the bunch of loom.
I'm hoping you guys are correct and hope the switch is the cause.
Thanks once again for the time you have given me.
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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:13 am

Recky2000 wrote:an connecting the wires together

Do not - read above, only remove the switch - got spark?
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:27 am

Mauser, I have been taking advice from both forums and YouTube , I tried the other forum 1st but have since moved to this forum where I believe the advice is excellent. Im hoping after today that I see a spark once I disconnect the switch.

BuRP, , if I disconnect both wires, the red wire from the switch that connects to the coil will not be delivering any power to the coil??? will that stop the power supply to the plug/cap which will prevent a spark..... I'm probably wrong but I need to ask.
Thanks again for your time I really do appreciate it.

By the way I will be staying as a member of this great forum and will continue to be a part of its community as I think it is excellent.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Hew on Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:56 am

You need to connect the two wire you take off the switch together. Leaving the two wires disconnected would be the same as a switch being off.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:05 pm

I have disconnected the switch leaving the exposed wires apart from each other, I then turned on my ignition  ground the spark plug against the engine and gave it  a few kicks..... no spark, i exchanged spark plug for the older original plug, ground that plug and gave it a few kicks.... no spark, i then removed the spark plug from the cap and inserted a screwdriver making sure it  was  pushed in against the metal connector in the cap, I then gave the bike a few kicks.... no spark. I then changed the coil for the new coil and followed the same proceedure... no spark. I  then joined the two wires that went into the switch and followed exact proceedure..... no spark
Is it the CDI unit??? Frustrated scratch shrug
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Re: Please help!

Post  Hew on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:29 pm

If you have a cdi to hand it is worth swapping it in but if not I would ensure that all connections especially the ones that have been modified are good before spending any money.
For example what is the ignition switch that has been fitted wired to. Has it replaced the kill switch?. If so connect the two wires together - bypassing the switch. If the ignition switch is not a replacement for the kill switch find the wires for the kill switch and ensure they are connected.
There is a lot of strain on the wiring around the headstock because of the turning the loom does in this area. Check all the wiring and connections in that area. Push and pull all the connections.

When you have gone through that it is time to start swapping the cdi rec and coil.
Good luck. You will get there in the end.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:54 pm

Thanks Hew, yes I agree I need to look around the ignition barrel etc before I order a new cdi unit, I have already purchased a new coil which hasn't cured the issue.
I was hoping someone on the forum lived close by so that I could swap the CDI unit to check if that is the issue. I would happily gift them with a crate of beer or a few bottles of their favourite wine!! Oh well I just need to carry on investigating.
Imagine my smile when I finally get my bike up and running.
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Re: Please help!

Post  Mauser on Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:22 pm

Kill switch goes to ground and the wires from the key switch shouldn't be joined ? bike will never start listen up all is does it short the coil out ?
As mentioned before it's going to be something simple; dodgy wire but I wouldn't rule out coil within the stator....
Glad you like our forum better we are old and miserable @ times but we do try and help banana

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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:31 am

IF (I dunno!) that 'secret switch' was wired in-line with the supply to the HTcoil - so, inbetween the CDI-unit & HTcoil! - then I may have bad news for you ..... for reason this place is NOT where one want to 'open' the circuit to prevent theft.
If that switch was used, or went bad ie open-circuit whilst riding, then it'll be the DCI-unit who's toast now!
The HT-feed wire is fed with a high-voltage pulse with quite some energy, and 'breaking' this circuit like that switch may have done (again, dunno how it is wired) means that energy must go somewhere... and it will sink into the CDIunit quite likely wrecking it  Frustrated

You know how it's wired, we don't, so: find out?
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Re: Please help!

Post  Recky2000 on Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:57 am

I sort of understand, can I check or should I have changed the switch for a new one to check for a spark? For me to check how it's wired..... the wiring loom resembles the London underground map to a 2 yrs old!! Think I need to get my bike to a garage as it's doing my nut in now. I'm going to check around the headlight wires 1st to see if there are any loose wires, as I said in an earlier post when I kick the engine over the headlight flickers on so I presume!! the ignition barrel is not causing the issue.
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Re: Please help!

Post  BuRP on Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:03 am

Recky

I give up, your last post shows you've understood very little of what we've been telling you!
Take it to a workshop yes, good idea!
If I were you though I'd order a new loom for your bike and have it installed - not too costly and peace of mind for a long time to come Bump
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