Radiator questions

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Radiator questions

Post  SFXR on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:47 pm

So I leapt out of my comfort zone and took off the seat, tank, side panels, airbox, some electrical stuff, etc. It's really easy to take stuff off--I hope I can remember how to put them all back on!

Now that I'm down to the radiator, I see that the mount is pretty flimsy. I can literally wiggle the left side radiator quite a bit. I want to put on a 6 gallon Acerbis, and I hear that a radiator guard is a must.

So i'm trying to understand if I a) install something like a Devol guard first, or b) put on the acerbis with some kind of cross-brace to the other lobe, or c) both.

And are there other options besides the Devol?

What if I put on a pair of fluidynes? Would the Devol still fit? Would the acerbis fit? Would the stock smog pieces fit on the fluidynes if I wanted to leave them on there? The KTM fan idea requires fabbing (not much, but beyond my tools and know-how) and I'd prefer a simple, bolt-on solution even if it costs more. Anything electric gives me the willies.

If I upgrade the thermostat, can I get away without a fan or fluidynes?

Thanks for your help!
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  Clipity on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:59 pm

If you are getting the acerbis 6 gallon tank Click me
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  SFXR on Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:09 pm

bow

Thanks a million. Just PM'd Hodakaguy.

I wonder if I can still mount fluidynes (with or without smog stuff still attached) with the acerbis?
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seems you're enjoying the mechanicals

Post  dave1200r on Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:52 am

Have you picked up a repair manual for the bike? I always get one for every vehicle I buy. I even have one for my parents Merc, and I'm sure they don't even realize it. but I have to do the work on it so...
invest in a good manual. preferably the one from Honda.
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  AURORA on Mon Sep 20, 2010 2:07 pm

SFXR wrote:

What if I put on a pair of fluidynes? Would the Devol still fit? Would the acerbis fit? Would the stock smog pieces fit on the fluidynes if I wanted to leave them on there? The KTM fan idea requires fabbing (not much, but beyond my tools and know-how) and I'd prefer a simple, bolt-on solution even if it costs more. Anything electric gives me the willies.

If I upgrade the thermostat, can I get away without a fan or fluidynes?

Thanks for your help!

Devol fit: NO
Acerbis fit: YES
Smog Crap: Why do you have that on your bike?
Why would you change the thermostat?

Run Evans Coolant...Minimum pressure on your coolant system. You won't need the 1.6 Radiator cap.
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Wed Nov 10, 2010 8:22 pm

Aurora, because you look like a nice gal I'll answer you razz

The 'cooler' or 'better' thermostat XR's Only sell I bought too. I measured it, and it opens between 79-80 Celsius, ie 2 or 3 degrees sooner (cooler) than the standard one. What I did do though was drill a small hole (3mm diameter) in the rim as I did not like to rely on the minute notch in the valve's rim to de-air the system - and yeah, this hole will flow a little coolant too.
But you asked 'why' - so I'll tell you.
The Pig is thermally a bit compromised, it has a tendency to run hot. One has to keep moving to get it to cool, and then also a minimum speed has to be maintained. If you can't you're buggered, and it is not for nothing that various 'patches' exist, mounting a fan quite a common one (which I will do too, waiting for parts). Honda themselves justify the expansion tank's presence by stating that this bike is designed to boil-off into this tank, and if you believe this then I should mention that I'm a Martian and sell spaceships in the harbour of Atlantis. Buy two and I'll give you an asteroid for free, for you to mine.
However, the Pig will boil off fluid, we all know this. Oh, those tootling around in the Arctic circles may not have noticed, but those hammering it in warm climates most certainly do.
So what can one do? Well, fitting a thermostat which opens a bit sooner will help - help to increase the amount of heat which is stored in the coolant, a thermal buffer or reserve. I'll skip any formulae but your coolant has a specific heat (amount of heat per degree increase, which is a constant), and you want to increase the temperature range (amount of degrees) between opening-of-thermostat and boiling-off-temperature.
That a cooler thermostat does. Plus, and note pls, you will also marginally increase your nett horsepower - nice eh? Warmer coolant increases efficiency (mileage), cooler coolant increase horsepower (at cost of efficiency of course). Besides, 80 deg C is still not "cool' at all.

However, there's more one can do - increasing the boil-off temp for instance. Mind you though, this may only be done to increase the thermal reserve, and not to increase the average coolant temperature - but you'll only notice that when you're boiling off coolant (make a note to remember this pls?).
Mounting a higher-pressure radiator cap will effect this, as the boiling point depends on the pressure - the higher the pressure the higher the boiling-temp. A simple & effective remedy although it is a bit symptomatic only. And yeah, I also have such a cap.

What I do NOT have though is a cooling system filled with a WAAAAAYYYY lower specific heat liguid such as Evans!!!! Normal coolant (which is water mainly) has a quite high specific heat. If you could INcrease this value then fine, I'd be tempted to do so - but I'll never ever DEcrease it, and that is exactly what one does by filling with this Evans stuff. That has a specific heat of only some 60% of coolant, hence you have to flow some 70% MORE (ie ADDITIONAL) coolant to obtain the same cooling of your engine.
You do this? Of course not, stockstandard pump, hoses, radiators etc, so you will run your poor engine on a HIGHER temperature (no gauge, remember?). And, even if not, you'll have a thermal reserve of only 60% of what you had, you'll overheat a LOT quicker.
But, and this is my main gripe with this stuff, you will NOT NOTICE any of this - because it will not boil off like coolant does! It boils at a waay higher temp hence all LOOKS fine.... but looks are very deceiving in this case!
Keep water in your engine ie normal coolant, and if you want to spoil your bike then fill with boron-free coolant or easier, not green/blue but any reddish stuff. Do some internet-homework on Toyota's coolant (red indeed) and find out why it is superb.

So: cooler thermostat, higher-pressure cap, maybe silicon hoses to cope better with the higher pressure, what else?
Take the standard radiator fins off, and replace by Unabike's grids which will flow more air (because they do not mask & deflect the air). Sure, these grids themselves also restrict, but they do this way less than the std fins.
More? Yeah, you can. Mount a thermostatically controlled fan, a 4" Spal Puller for instance, and mount it instead of the Anti Smog rubbish.... and here we agree! That nonsense must come off, and when you get busy also block the tiny hole in the carb's cover disallowing the engine-vacuum to open that valve to lean-off the idling mixture. In doing so you'll also increase your engine braking on overrun, all in all a worthwhile exercise.

Keep yer cool Aurora Wink
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Either the most stupid post ever or is it a joke?

Post  Bump on Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:34 am

BuRP wrote:Aurora, because you look like a nice gal I'll answer you razz

The Pig is thermally a bit compromised, it has a tendency to run hot. One has to keep moving to get it to cool, and then also a minimum speed has to be maintained. If you can't you're buggered, and it is not for nothing that various 'patches' exist, mounting a fan quite a common one (which I will do too, waiting for parts). Honda themselves justify the expansion tank's presence by stating that this bike is designed to boil-off into this tank, and if you believe this then I should mention that I'm a Martian and sell spaceships in the harbour of Atlantis. Buy two and I'll give you an asteroid for free, for you to mine.
Not sure what you are saying here but... The bike isn't thermally compromised. The only part of the bike that was compromised is the airbox. This is a race bike that was detuned for homogulation sale-nearly all of which were sold in So Cal. If the bike is overheating then you aren't riding it at the speeds it was designed and built to run at during winter in the deserts of So Cal, Nevada, and Baja. You can run without the expansion tank as many of the race teams who won did. Aurora is correct. Nothing is needed except Evans NPR-R. The XR650R can't boil Evans.

However, the Pig will boil off fluid, we all know this. Oh, those tootling around in the Arctic circles may not have noticed, but those hammering it in warm climates most certainly do.
The Pig will boil off water not Evans. The other problem causing this is a faulty OEM thermostat prone to failure.

So what can one do? Well, fitting a thermostat which opens a bit sooner will help - help to increase the amount of heat which is stored in the coolant, a thermal buffer or reserve.
A properly setup XRR will not overheat. Evans plus a replacement thermostat. You can fit a thermostat that opens sooner but you offer three new problems with that gem of an idea. First, you run the risk of not letting the coolant stay in the engine long enough to absorb the heat thus creating the opposite of the result you were pontificating would happen. Second, lower operating temps means lower HP and bad combustion. Third, these engines are engineered to run in a certain temperature range ideally for long life (like finishing rides and races). By perhaps operating under loads at temps outside that range you create the hazard of an environment where all the dissimilar metals haven't expanded to where Honda intended them to be. Any guesses where that leads?

I'll skip any formulae but your coolant has a specific heat (amount of heat per degree increase, which is a constant), and you want to increase the temperature range (amount of degrees) between opening-of-thermostat and boiling-off-temperature.
You do not want to do this. This is the same thinking that leads to higher pressure radiator caps. Honda is perhaps the premier engineering company in the world. The cooling system on the XRR was engineered to be as it was delivered and not engineered to be run at higher pressures and temperature. What you should be doing is finding a setup that makes the the bike run at properly within the engineering parameters Honda designed to run within. That means Evans and a proper thermostat. Your assumptions imply and assume Honda somehow made a mistake here or under-engineered this cooling system. That is incorrect and not based on fact.

That a cooler thermostat does. Plus, and note pls, you will also marginally increase your nett horsepower - nice eh? Warmer coolant increases efficiency (mileage), cooler coolant increase horsepower (at cost of efficiency of course). Besides, 80 deg C is still not "cool' at all.
Of course heat is horsepower. And internal combustion is often observed to be simply an air pump. Therefore the more heat the air can absorb the more expansion the air will demonstrate and the greater the pressure that expanding air will apply to the walls of the cylinder, the head, and the piston top. Drag racers know this and that's why top fuel teams use to have a lean out switch they'd use if necessary at the end of the course to win. Of course leaning it out that hard also burned down the engine but the cost benefit leaned toward benefit when parts are paid for by someone else and there is prize money too.

However, there's more one can do - increasing the boil-off temp for instance. Mind you though, this may only be done to increase the thermal reserve, and not to increase the average coolant temperature - but you'll only notice that when you're boiling off coolant (make a note to remember this pls?).
The XRR will not boil Evans. Moreover, forcing the bike to run hotter than intended for long periods of time will only degrade engine life and HP. And for what benefit? Slight power increases? You win races by being the best rider not by passing a few people on straightaways. Those power increases are marginal and pale when compared to increases in making the air pump more efficient and moving air. Team Honda porting is only $300 from the man himself and the power increase is the same amount as one gets with the HRC cam or the HRC piston and without any added stress on the engine.

Mounting a higher-pressure radiator cap will effect this, as the boiling point depends on the pressure - the higher the pressure the higher the boiling-temp. A simple & effective remedy although it is a bit symptomatic only. And yeah, I also have such a cap.
Neither simple or effective really. What you should say is cheap and temporary. If you've ever seen a grenaded XRR engine you'll learn just how exact the engineering on this engine is. That head is pretty thin for example. And none of it was engineered to be run at higher pressures and temps-there is simply no need or benefit for the bike engineered of singular purpose-to dominate the deserts of Baja, So Cal and Nevada. The effects could be many from the simple of compromising oil properties to expensive like degrading the coating on the piston.

What I do NOT have though is a cooling system filled with a WAAAAAYYYY lower specific heat liguid such as Evans!!!! Normal coolant (which is water mainly) has a quite high specific heat. If you could INcrease this value then fine, I'd be tempted to do so - but I'll never ever DEcrease it, and that is exactly what one does by filling with this Evans stuff. That has a specific heat of only some 60% of coolant, hence you have to flow some 70% MORE (ie ADDITIONAL) coolant to obtain the same cooling of your engine.
This is ridiculous. You should not be offering this as advice. Please stop.

You do this? Of course not, stockstandard pump, hoses, radiators etc, so you will run your poor engine on a HIGHER temperature (no gauge, remember?). And, even if not, you'll have a thermal reserve of only 60% of what you had, you'll overheat a LOT quicker.
But, and this is my main gripe with this stuff, you will NOT NOTICE any of this - because it will not boil off like coolant does! It boils at a waay higher temp hence all LOOKS fine.... but looks are very deceiving in this case!
Keep water in your engine ie normal coolant, and if you want to spoil your bike then fill with boron-free coolant or easier, not green/blue but any reddish stuff. Do some internet-homework on Toyota's coolant (red indeed) and find out why it is superb.
This is felony stupid. I think the kids call this an epic fail.

So: cooler thermostat, higher-pressure cap, maybe silicon hoses to cope better with the higher pressure, what else?
Take the standard radiator fins off, and replace by Unabike's grids which will flow more air (because they do not mask & deflect the air). Sure, these grids themselves also restrict, but they do this way less than the std fins.
Not accurate either. I've seen the dyno tests on this and you are wrong. And these aftermarket grids aren't for more air flow anyway they are for some sort of doomsday protection in crashes. Look at photos of the real racers and no one does this--because they think and they test and they use what is best. In this case it is also the simplest and cheapest-we win!

More? Yeah, you can. Mount a thermostatically controlled fan, a 4" Spal Puller for instance, and mount it instead of the Anti Smog rubbish.... and here we agree! That nonsense must come off, and when you get busy also block the tiny hole in the carb's cover disallowing the engine-vacuum to open that valve to lean-off the idling mixture. In doing so you'll also increase your engine braking on overrun, all in all a worthwhile exercise.
This is a bad idea as well (the fan). Sure there are people putting small fans on these bikes. Hey, there's some guys who mount gas chain saws on the front of their KLXs too: Good idea there? Ogilvie had a fan kit made for the bike (I saw it first hand and checked it out) and it was shipped to him in Torrance directly from Honda Japan. What did Ogilvie do with it? He never even took it out of the plastic bag. What does that tell you? You are going in the wrong direction. The solution is to stop the bike from over-heating and not to make the bike more complex and heavier without solving problems. It's your bike and I strongly encourage you to do whatever you want with it. This is a classic case of a solution-looking-for-a-problem.

Keep yer cool Aurora Wink
[i]


Last edited by Bump on Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:52 pm

Do some homework on it first Bump, and then conclude with me it's not.
I did that kind of homework for four years, at university actually, they call it Thermodynamics.

"Moreover, forcing the bike to run hotter than intended for long periods of time will only degrade engine life and HP"
Agree 100%, but that's what you'll do when putting a liquid in which does have a way lesser specific heat..... like Evans for example. Unless, like I said, you will flow some 70% more of it, which no-one does.
You say Evans won't boil off - quite so, it boils at several hundred degrees Celsius, hence my point that one will not notice the higher temperatures.
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I'm certain you are correct...

Post  Bump on Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:10 pm

... and the entire racing community and engineering community of the United States of America, Japan, Germany et. al., are wrong. That makes complete sense to me. I can only conclude your post is a joke.

BuRP wrote:Do some homework on it first Bump, and then conclude with me it's not.
I did that kind of homework for four years, at university actually, they call it Thermodynamics.

"Moreover, forcing the bike to run hotter than intended for long periods of time will only degrade engine life and HP"
Agree 100%, but that's what you'll do when putting a liquid in which does have a way lesser specific heat..... like Evans for example. Unless, like I said, you will flow some 70% more of it, which no-one does.
You say Evans won't boil off - quite so, it boils at several hundred degrees Celsius, hence my point that one will not notice the higher temperatures.
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That's twice...

Post  Bump on Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:46 pm

That's twice now you have trotted out some sort of engineering education you have that is supposed to settle the quality of your ideas as good. Does that work on people you meet in person? Because it doesn't work here.
College is fine for polishing off some rough spots but it doesn't make you a man. It doesn't make you any better than anyone else either. So take a break from that rarefied air you are breathing as a educated man in South Africa and just stick to whether or not your ideas are sound. I've known a lot of very bright people in engineering and in racing in my life as I grew up in the racing community of So Cal. Some of the best weren't even high school educated and some had PhDs. Some of the worst weren't high school educated either and some had college degrees in engineering. Stupid people can get degrees all day long just like the brightest among us can-Universities are no longer about sorting on merit and instead are very incentivized on graduating everyone-especially those with money. So if you want to be an expert on engineering cup holders for the family school buses we call SUVs then great. But if you want to be a proven genius with dirt bikes then take a step back because I don't know any race shop in So Cal (where all the major dirt bike manufacturers have their race HQs) whose top mechanics are engineers. Almost every one I know is just a brilliant kid who started out doing grunt work and worked his way to the top on merit alone rather than any time spent in rarefied air.
Finally, I know several BRP riders in SA and they are each just great guys. Very bright and educated and mature. So this is in no way an implication that your prank-posts cause any negative view of SA. Moreover, I have two degrees, one advanced and my wife has three. We never bring it up to others-it's just plain rude and reflects very badly on the speaker. There's another guy on here who is a bona-fide rocket scientist in New Mexico at ground zero for that science but he never beats his chest about it and in fact is rather self-deprecating.
Here's the benediction: The XR650R would not even exist if it had been left to the engineers. This bike was designed and created by one brilliant guy and the first time the engineers tried to make it the result was refused by Ogilvie. If it had been left to guys like you we'd have an XR600R turd with electric start instead.


BuRP wrote:Do some homework on it first Bump, and then conclude with me it's not.
I did that kind of homework for four years, at university actually, they call it Thermodynamics.

"Moreover, forcing the bike to run hotter than intended for long periods of time will only degrade engine life and HP"
Agree 100%, but that's what you'll do when putting a liquid in which does have a way lesser specific heat..... like Evans for example. Unless, like I said, you will flow some 70% more of it, which no-one does.
You say Evans won't boil off - quite so, it boils at several hundred degrees Celsius, hence my point that one will not notice the higher temperatures.
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:11 pm

Bump,

all I've said is that Evans is not desirable because it has a lower specific heat, but by all means check that on their own website:
http://www.evanscooling.com/water-based-vs-waterless-differentiators/
The table is the one you want to peruse.

Now you've got 100 units of heat at 80C to shed.
With water you need to flow 100 / 1 = 100 units.
With Evans you need to flow 100 / 0.64 = 156.25 units.

The amount of heat to be shed remains the same, but the medium with which this happens is less capable to do so. By all means flow a gas, air for instance, and it will work too - but you'll have to flow an awful lot of it to end up with the same amount of heat shed.
You're with me now? No wonder racing engines are filled with plain water, never mind that any additives are forbidden in any case.

You've called me kiddo - thank you, I haven't heard that for ages.
Born in Europe, educated there too, moved to Africa, and have held quite a range of jobs. I also hold various mechanic's papers, motorcycle being one of them. I've PDI'd bikes ranging from Suzuki Wankel's to Ducati Desmo's with the Benelli Sei inbetween there, spannered Japauto's during endurance races, maintained various two stroke racers and raced 50's myself. Only at a later age I went back to the Uni, and specialized in Thermodynamics. I still tune engines for a hobby but my eyes get less lenient, but at mid 50 that's to be expected I suppose. Still ride like a lunatic though, on & off road, keeps one fit.
But I've got a fair idea how heat works, and the blurb on the site above is just that.
And that I said, which is my same right as yours to disagree with.

You mention parts of the world I know quite well. In fact I got curious to what Evans actually was, had never heard of it, so I educated myself a bit. But you say it's used in (read above)...... well now, that IS news to me indeed.
I'll take your word for it Kiddo, but there's a nagging doubt somewhere ;-)
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You are missing my point.

Post  Bump on Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:12 am

I've spoken with the Evans' engineers a few times over the years about the XR650R plus most of the most experienced XR650R racers I know use it as well so that isn't an idea worth arguing. My point here is for you to use cat piss in your rads if you are so inclined. Millions here in the US drink cat piss under the label of "White Zinfandel".

From the beginning my point here is to make certain no noob follows you down your path. There are a lot of guys on here who just want to solve a problem the smartest cheapest way as soon as possible. I can also add some insight into how Team Honda solved problems.

If we were dating your curriculum vitae might be of interest. In this case it only serves to prove the old maxim about it taking an engineer to really screw something up.
The way engineers think...

A priest, a doctor, and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers.

Engineer: What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!

Doctor: I don't know but I've never seen such ineptitude!

Priest: Hey, here comes the greenskeeper. Let's have a word with him.

Priest: Hi George. Say George, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow aren't they?

George: Oh yes. That's a group of blind fire fighters. They lost their sight while saving our club house last year. So we let them play here anytime free of charge!

(silence)

Priest: That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer for them tonight.

Doctor: Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them.

Engineer: Why can't these guys play at night?


BuRP wrote:Bump,

all I've said is that Evans is not desirable because it has a lower specific heat, but by all means check that on their own website:
http://www.evanscooling.com/water-based-vs-waterless-differentiators/
The table is the one you want to peruse.

Now you've got 100 units of heat at 80C to shed.
With water you need to flow 100 / 1 = 100 units.
With Evans you need to flow 100 / 0.64 = 156.25 units.

The amount of heat to be shed remains the same, but the medium with which this happens is less capable to do so. By all means flow a gas, air for instance, and it will work too - but you'll have to flow an awful lot of it to end up with the same amount of heat shed.
You're with me now? No wonder racing engines are filled with plain water, never mind that any additives are forbidden in any case.

You've called me kiddo - thank you, I haven't heard that for ages.
Born in Europe, educated there too, moved to Africa, and have held quite a range of jobs. I also hold various mechanic's papers, motorcycle being one of them. I've PDI'd bikes ranging from Suzuki Wankel's to Ducati Desmo's with the Benelli Sei inbetween there, spannered Japauto's during endurance races, maintained various two stroke racers and raced 50's myself. Only at a later age I went back to the Uni, and specialized in Thermodynamics. I still tune engines for a hobby but my eyes get less lenient, but at mid 50 that's to be expected I suppose. Still ride like a lunatic though, on & off road, keeps one fit.
But I've got a fair idea how heat works, and the blurb on the site above is just that.
And that I said, which is my same right as yours to disagree with.

You mention parts of the world I know quite well. In fact I got curious to what Evans actually was, had never heard of it, so I educated myself a bit. But you say it's used in (read above)...... well now, that IS news to me indeed.
I'll take your word for it Kiddo, but there's a nagging doubt somewhere ;-)
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Sat Nov 27, 2010 7:41 pm

Aha, so that's it: no Noob is to follow my advice because you, who has talked to many 'guys', say so!
That is funnier than the very good joke you posted Smile
But nonetheless interesting..... and this would have nothing to do with the fact that I am a noob, and you have posted many posts here as per your own statement?

But whatever, whilst I put catpiss in my rads I'll give you some good advice: don't mistake the rather funny Noob-avatar used here for 'Moron'. You have absolutely no clue as to who is behind that Pumpkinhead, and to assume is making an Ass of U and Me.

But I'll be noob-clear this time, and then you may have the last say in this thread:
- a cooling system will flow the maximum coolant volume when the thermostat is open
- this volume x the used coolant's specific heat = the maximum amount of heat which the system can possibly shed, it is the maximum cooling it is capable of!
- Water has a specific heat of 1, ergo 1 x maximum cooling = 100% maximum cooling.
- Evans has a specific heat of 0.66, ergo 0.66 x maximum cooling = 66% of maximum cooling, which means the capacity has been reduced by 34% !!!

Hopefully clearer now?
This is why Evans is not used anywhere but for - maybe! - dragracers, and then only in the US of probably a minority! In a cooling system of anything racing on tarmac nothing is allowed but for water, a safety measure! And nobody complains, because it has the highest possible heat-capacity, but this simple fact you don't seem to grab at all.
Talking about CV's, have you got any technical credentials yourself?
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:04 pm

Because I know for a fact that Evans is not used in the continents I'm familiar with (not the US!), plus the serious disadvantages it must have based on its lowered heat-capacity, I decided to ask Google.

Found various with a single query, I'll list some sites:

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63377
I did only peruse Page 1, and note that the OP claims to be a beta-tester for Evans!
While YSR612, Neduro & Jeepboy clearly understand how it works, Meat Popsicle & BigMac prove to be utterly thermally dyslexic!

BigMac:
The Evans has been claimed to indicate higher coolant temps as indicated by coolant temp guage.

Yes, of course, it simply MUST do this! The flowed volume is the same, the generated amount of heat is same, however the specific heat is lower - hence the temp-increase of the coolant must be greater >> a hotter engine!

This is likely indicative of this cooling mediums greater efficiency at thermal transfer, particularly around combustion chamber jacket.
Wrong! The lower (than water) specific heat means it will climb to a higher temp during the pass through the engine, and with this fact it will cause the engine to run hotter (than when run with water).
Go back above & find me mentioning same!

The engine is not necessarily running "hotter", the coolant temp is higher. This does not directly translate to higher combustion temps or oil temps.
Oh no? OF COURSE is does!!!!!! Again, like I said, run a gas (which has a minutely small specific heat when compared to a liquid) as coolant, and witness your engine go up in smokeā€¦.. unless you flow a MASSIVE amount of it!

Another link:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=127784
Note the always higher temperatures measured!

Another one:
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-246668.html
Here EngIceDave's comments surely must ring a bell of a Noob here somewhere?

But all these guys can't have a clue, simply because they'd be Noobs here on this forum. Remember what I said, the BRP is thermally compromised, a fact which you even confirm, by stating this is a racing bike - true too, one must keep it moving at a considerable speed to keep it cool, but who does this all the time? Not me, I even have a brakelight on it, I need that in town...
Whilst some run catpiss (which is mainly water!) others may run worse stuff, in doing so ruining their engine whilst all telltale signs (boiling, smoking, pinging etc) are blissfully absent, hence keeping a smile on their face until the bomb goes bang....


Subject now really closed for me, I think a 'QED' is in order.
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It's a simple choice...

Post  Bump on Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:05 pm

Readers of this thread can follow the example of the greatest desert racers in the world who live and race in a corner of the world where: the XR650R was designed from scratch: the XR650R was raced to an almost perfect record over seven years: the XR650R was evolved to perfection. Or Readers can follow the advice of some thin skinned guy who has apparently been to the end of the Internet and come back to tell us he has found opinions that lay claim to the opposite of fact.

What is next? Will you tell us you have found other truths at the end of the Internet? Is the world flat after all? Was the moon landing faked? Do porn stars really love us? Was Humpty Dumpty pushed?

Perhaps you like to get the last word in so by all means plow ahead Sir.
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Here's another source for Evans NPG-R

Post  Bump on Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:19 am

I posted this last year when Ty came out this a relabeled bottle of Evans in smaller quantities than Evans' gallon size. Seems appropriate to post again.

http://www.ziptyracing.com/products/product_detail.aspx?id=MTMwNg==
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Re: Radiator questions

Post  BuRP on Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:17 am

Date 31-12-2010

Hey Bump,

you & I will agree to disagree on this, and I'm sure we'll live with it forever. But, seeing we're both not real springchickens anymore, and considering the fact that we both are fond of the Pig, let's get eagerly down to the Dirty.... Happy New Year Mate, it's around the corner and I'm going to dive in headfirst!
Mind though, that's meant for everybody out there reading this - have a good 'un, see ya at the other end!
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Happy New Year to you too

Post  Bump on Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:31 pm

There's another XRR rider over there who invited me over and his stories of riding into villages that have never seen a white person or a motorcycle were stunning.

Thanks for the well wishes and all the best to you too!

BuRP wrote:Date 31-12-2010

Hey Bump,

you & I will agree to disagree on this, and I'm sure we'll live with it forever. But, seeing we're both not real springchickens anymore, and considering the fact that we both are fond of the Pig, let's get eagerly down to the Dirty.... Happy New Year Mate, it's around the corner and I'm going to dive in headfirst!
Mind though, that's meant for everybody out there reading this - have a good 'un, see ya at the other end!
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just to throw a little fuel on the fire.

Post  pwrtrippin on Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:37 pm

If its good enough for the FAA its good enough for me.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgSAIB.nsf/%28LookupSAIBs%29/NE-05-84R1?OpenDocument

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Re: Radiator questions

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