Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Guest Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:35 pm

BuRP wrote:Vegetable oils (canola, peanut, ricinus etc) are excellent lubricants.... until they get hot. Then they oxidize & turn to ashes. They lubricate better than synth's(esters) but are shortlived.
Mineral oils do not do this, at least, they do this at a waaaay higher temp. Good lubes if a proper base oil is used & doped accordingly. Most cars & machines in the world run on these.
Somewhere in the recent past a court-case was won (by Caltex I believe) due to which modified/processed mineral oils now may be called 'synthetic'. Are they? Nope, they're not. Good? Yeah, they can be better (can, yes, not are) than mineral one's, but generally speaking they're used to fetch a higher price for little gain. Exceptions exist though.
Real sysnthetic oils, i.e built molecule by molecule, are consequentially called 'full synthetic' - spot the difference. Are they better? Yeah, but careful now, we're talking about 100% full synth? If so then yes, they're bound to be. Their VI (viscosity index) is inherent to the oil instead of due to dopes, and thus one has more oil in the oil (huh? Yea, 's true). They're more temperature stable, often can withstand higher temps, and one of the main advantages (for bikers) is that the oil does not 'seek the sump' after standing for some time. It clings best to metals, and will keep a film for loooooong, this in contradiction to mineral oil who will run off. Simply put: I'd rather start my bike knowing it has real synth in.

What oil do you use in your lawnmower, hedge trimmer and your edger???

Who actually makes oils? Only the very large brands do, the kind who can afford to employ an entire village of scientists to think-up the good stuff. Why? Simple, they have an established name to loose, so they make sure they won't.
Who are they? You know them: Shell, Esso, Agip, Mobil, Elf, BP, Caltex etc, they make the real oils. Any oil from them will perform as per on the tin, promise it will.

Oh, yeah, there's a multitude of independent refineries also who make the base oils - which they sell to whomever wants them. Who's this? You know them too, and they're not amoung the names above! These companies either shine because they excel in Marketing (which are most) or they are real experts in making oils, this by buying the correct base & mixing/doping them themselves. Sadly there's only a handful of the latter.

What I buy? Brands, only them, not Honda (marketing) or ...... whatever, just brands.
What's a good oil? Depends on what you want.
I want to start the thing with piece of mind there is oil everywhere (a full synth), and I want to ensure the engine is & stays clean (high in detergent & dispersant dopes), so that means a diesel oil.
Hence I mix 50/50 Shell Helix Ultra (full synth) & Caltex Delo 400 (diesel).
Mix????? Yeah, you can mix any engine oil you like, nothing wrong with. The resulting brew I use in my diesel car as well as all 4 stroke engines I have.

Mind, it's warm here, those living in a real cold environment may be better off, in winter, to use 100% Shell Helix Ultra - 5W40 after all.
You don't agree? Your prerogative entirely, but you won't convince me other wise ;-)

Guest Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:03 am

Bump,

the often-mentioned Shell Rotella, a (good!) diesel oil, does basically same as the Delo (a multigrade), however Rotella is a single (mono) grade. Nothing wrong with if the correct viscosity is choosen, and this depends on the ambient temp. I'd not recommend it when you're up in the cold or snow somewhere, but anywhere reasonable or warmish it'll be fine. It also classifies as recommended oil for the Pig, same like all oils I mentioned so btw. A diesel oil differs from a petrol oil only in its ability to clean & keep-clean an engine's internals, quite beneficial I think, especially when out in the dust. But also, these days there's often little differences left between these two oils, and most commercial oils may be used in both engines. The Helix Ultra for instance, pour it in anything you like, it's bound to better the spec a manufacturer prescribes - and keep in mind they always prescribe minimum spec's! As far as the gearbox is concerned, especially the synth excels in its VI properties, but also the mineral oil is a superb one, hence these oils will not be sheared to water like cheap oils will be.

Some here like to push the boundaries though, and I'd like to hear the tears of the chap who'll run straight veggie-oil like Canola in the Pig. It'll carbonize in no-time, and will seize the its internals. Pls post a pic? Smile

Guest Wed Aug 24, 2011 10:51 pm

Rotella is diesel oil and cycle oil. You dont think it is cycle oil? Right on the back of the jug is says, meets the performance requirements of: ACEA E9, Mack EO-O, Priemium Plus Caterpiller ECF-3, ECF-2, ECF-1A, Cummings CES 20081, DDC93K218, MB Approval 228.31, MAN M 3575, MTU Cat 2, Volvo VDS-4, DEUTZ DQC III-05, JASO DH-2, (Which I have no idea what any of that means) and last but not least and I do know what this means JASO MA. Which means you can put it in your bike.
I run Rotella 15W-40 in both my sons bikes and my wifes bike CRF70, XR100, CRF150 and soon to be a XRR for me. I run 5W-40 synthetic rotella in my R6, my suzuki scooter and my 95 Jeep Wrangler. I also run the T5 10w-30 rotella in my 2009 silverado 1500. Its has the best additive package for the price and you can buy it anywhere. I have thought about mixing the 15W-40 with the synthetic 5W-40 to get a 10W-40 oil but I dont think it would make much difference. If you wanted to get really picky you could run the 5w when cold the mixed oil in the spring and fall and the 15w in the heat of the summer. Im probobly that crazy but I dont have the time or give a crap to do it. Im not brand loyal or anything and not suggesting that rotella is the end all best oil in the world but it is fine in a bike, affordable, available in big jugs so you save by buying in bulk and it is readily avalable just about anywhere. Win win for me since Im changing oil in so any bikes. They started taking out zink and phosphoreus in oil because of cat converters in new cars but it is still in diesel and bike oil so I stay away from car oil. Ps hello from Tennessee Im a newbee and I love my watermelon helmet. I wish I had a real helmet like that, i would wear it when Im on my scooter.

Guest Sat Aug 27, 2011 9:43 pm

Yo Roy,

change that watermelon helmet if you like, you can put on a nice pic of your choice.
Your small (son's) bikes you put 15Wsomething in? That's too thick I think, you need 10W or less, but check the booklets.
Jaso is a japanese-only spec, and many manufacturers do not bother with getting this in addition as it is a costly process. But if it's on there too - nice, but only that.

Guest Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:28 am

I thought only the second number was what was important except when the weather is cold then the first number needs to be lower. For example 5w is recommended when its cold and 10w or 15w is fine any other time.

Guest Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:33 pm

First number indicates the viscosity when the oil's cold, and you want it thin then, you want it to flow.
The second number indicates the viscosity when it's warm - but mind, at that warm temperature it has become thinner, more viscous, quite a lot a lot in fact, so I'd say that number's less important in making up your choice.

Guest Wed Dec 05, 2012 5:26 pm

Matthendurocat wrote:The honda manual says to change it every 600, and I'm saying thats bullshit. If oil is slippery and has good color than it does not need changed. Just to prove my point I am going to run straight canola oil in my bike for 2500 miles, and then all of you guys will see! I know what I'm talking about! After that I am going to run peanut oil and I bet it will still be just fine. It does not matter what kind of oil you run, just as long as you over fill it a little bit. You could even run wd-40.

MATTHENDUROCAT

STATISTICS
Last visit:
Fri May 28, 2010 2:49 am

Last visit 5/28/2010

I wonder if running the 100% canola oil killed his engine?

Guest Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:50 pm

Didn't he say he never had any problems.........except catastrophic failure? Rolling Eyes

Sounds like a test result to me.

Guest Wed Dec 05, 2012 7:57 pm

AURORA wrote:
Matthendurocat wrote:The honda manual says to change it every 600, and I'm saying thats bullshit. If oil is slippery and has good color than it does not need changed. Just to prove my point I am going to run straight canola oil in my bike for 2500 miles, and then all of you guys will see! I know what I'm talking about! After that I am going to run peanut oil and I bet it will still be just fine. It does not matter what kind of oil you run, just as long as you over fill it a little bit. You could even run wd-40.

MATTHENDUROCAT

STATISTICS
Last visit:
Fri May 28, 2010 2:49 am

Last visit 5/28/2010

I wonder if running the 100% canola oil killed his engine?

That guy (MATTHENDUROCAT) must be an idiot , i hope noone listen to him .

Mauser Wed Dec 05, 2012 9:13 pm

I change mine every 500KM or there about, oil's cheap and so are filters; I have an ebay search set-up for the genuine filter and buy them when they pop up at the right price....normally less than a fiver. Bike only needs 1.6 litres of oil so 4 litres of oil will do nearly 3 changes and I only pay £20-£25 for Silkolene 10W40 Semi Synthetic....it's a no brainer Bananatool

Guest Wed Dec 05, 2012 11:11 pm

Matthendurocat wrote:The honda manual says to change it every 600, and I'm saying thats bullshit. If oil is slippery and has good color than it does not need changed. Just to prove my point I am going to run straight canola oil in my bike for 2500 miles, and then all of you guys will see! I know what I'm talking about! After that I am going to run peanut oil and I bet it will still be just fine.

LOL! That is a freak'n hilarious couple sentences.

But being the engineering type my wheels started turning after reading that and I did a little looking on the interwebz. You've got to read this paper from Purdue. They added some extra goodies to the canola (see US Patent No. 5,888,947) so it wasn't pure out of the bottle from the grocery store canola. So I guess as long as he took it easy and it never got real cold the canola could work. (that logic being based on the integrity of the paper that is) You've gotta have some real ballz to try it though. Not in my XRR crazy

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/ncnu02/v5-029.html
It gets really good half way down under the "BENCH TESTS"

Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:14 pm

Yes i have read that some years ago , but that is modified oil with many additives and the lad was going to use ordinary oil from his grocery shop crazy

The only problem with bio oils seems to be the "turning solid when cold" not a problem if you live in hot country .

Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:51 pm

From best I can tell gleaning over the US Patent the additives they used came from Castor Oil, Jojoba Oil and Natural antioxidants like pyridines and lectins. Each oil (by volume) has a unique additive to bring to the table.

Oils Aren't Oils - Page 2 VeggyMotorOil

I think the nail in the coffin for why you don't want to use grocery store veggy oil as the life blood of your beast is a tiny little detail in Section 3 paragraph 3 "The base oil is derived from a variety of unrefined vegetable oil sources including any of the following:" Good luck buying raw unrefined veggy oil from your local grocery store. I don't know a whole lot about refining veggy oil but I'd imagine they pull out all the goodies you would need to keep your engine happy.

http://www.google.com/patents/US5888947

Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:55 pm

MMMMM Blueberries have antioxidants. I like blueberries. Very Happy

Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 4:59 pm

chrislogan27 wrote:MMMMM Blueberries have antioxidants. I like blueberries.

LMFAO!

Mmmm, Blueberries hungry

Careful, they turn your fingers blue nice

Guest Thu Dec 06, 2012 5:03 pm

ADD at its finest banana

Guest Sat Oct 10, 2015 11:43 pm

HAT wrote:Hey Guys,
I recently bought my XRR and I need to change the oil and filter on it. Was wondering what oils and filters you guys all use and why you think they are the Good Gear?

PS Hi from Mount Isa

listen to your motor, I did a oil change with ams oil motorcycle synthetic and couldnt believe how much smoother and quieter the engine was running.. worth the price. or lucas motor cycle synthetics are good as well, smoother shifting as well, compared to honda oil.

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