Noobie from the NW needing a PUSH!

I have been lurking for a couple days trying to take in as much info as possible to help make a decision. I have alot of experience on an XR mainly the 400, and am currently riding a Yamaha WR400. But the 650R was always the bike that intrigued me, but I am a little hesitant to lose the nimbleness and add weight. Not like the WR is light. Any word of experience riding the BRP in the slower technical stuff? Is the BRP with all of the other things it does well worth maiking the jump here? I found an 07' that has hardly been used for $3600 that is uncorked. Any fedback in my quest for info would be helpful.

If you keep the bike light without giant gas tanks, armor, and various other add-ons then I recommend it. Just gear it down for what you need which is a bike that is comfortable crawling over stuff so you aren't burning down the clutch.
You'll need to install Evans in the rads for slow, low wind crawling. Don't install fan(s).
It will be and seem a little heavier and more stable than you'll probably like. It will not be a KDX200 no matter what you do! But the added torque should make the engine a lot easier to manage than a WR. I think you'll come out ahead. I've ridden all three bikes.
Price seems little high for my area. I know of a guy who recently bought a 2003, less than 500 miles, dual sported and street legal in CA for $2500. It was perfect. Personally I'd stay away from a modded bike unless it had all the expensive parts I want on it.
Great luck. Perhaps you can find another rider in your area and try his scoot? Between this forum and the Yahoo group you should be able to.
An added bonus is the BRP is the PERFECT eastern Oregon desert bike IMHO.
Let us know what happens!

"Thumper"GUY wrote:I have been lurking for a couple days trying to take in as much info as possible to help make a decision. I have alot of experience on an XR mainly the 400, and am currently riding a Yamaha WR400. But the 650R was always the bike that intrigued me, but I am a little hesitant to lose the nimbleness and add weight. Not like the WR is light. Any word of experience riding the BRP in the slower technical stuff? Is the BRP with all of the other things it does well worth maiking the jump here? I found an 07' that has hardly been used for $3600 that is uncorked. Any fedback in my quest for info would be helpful.

Thanks for your thoughts BUMP they had the bike listed for $4600 and because things are slow right now they are willing to part with it for the $3600 and maybe less, but it seems everything up here is high. The bike does have some aftermarket accessories on it. It has an Edelbrock and full Pro-Circuit T4 exhaust system. The dealer said that it is not DS eligible bike, if I could get it on the street my decision would be made, but the tree huggers up here are ridiculous. How does the low and mid range compare to a WR? Did you have a WR 400 or 450?

All the riding Ive done on mine has been tight stuff. I replaced the front sprocket with a 13 tooth just to gear it down a little. It worked but could be a little lower. The bike is a beast to throw around a switchback but one advantage to it is the power its got.

Heres some pics of the trails we ride on.

http://www.xr650rforum.com/epic-adventures-f6/entiat-ride-2008-t335.htm

The difference is about 50% more cubic inches. So imagine a 1969 Camaro with a 4speed and a 283 small block. Then the same Camaro with a 427. With the 427 it doesn't really matter what gear you start off in. My mom had a 375HP 396 1969 Camaro and at the same time my dad had a 1969 Z/28 Camaro with the 302. Man, they were really different. When my dad was driving us in mom's car he's start off in 2nd or third unless he was racing someone.
So with the big XR you won't have to worry about getting up into the powerband, or what gear you are in when you see a hill coming. Just goose it and go. If you decide you want a more two-stroke like midrange then HRC cam, HRC head porting, and milled HRC piston-just get the whole HRC kit. I guarantee you will have a difficult time holding on to the bike then.

The T-4 pipe is worth some money. The Edelbrock is a negative to me. I'd suggest you look for an BRP that is already street legal in Oregon. I assume they had a cutoff like California did and grandfathered the existing plated bikes in. That gives you the ability to ride the bike in areas which require all OHVs to be street legal. And those areas seem to be increasing. It's winter there so those bikes should be coming up for sale as people see them sitting in their garages. Use Crazedlist to search all the Craigslists in Oregon and any other state close by you. Search wrong spellings too. Like XR 650, XR650 and so forth. Try to be general. Don't overestimate your fellow Americans...

As far as mods go, I suggest you simply build the Team Honda bike. It is the cheapest way to go. And that setup is by far the fastest and easiest to maintain. If the bike is sitting for more than three days then drain the carb.

Just don't add weight to the bike. And for goodness sake do not get one of those Acerbis or IMS tanks that are giant. You'll ruin the handling of the front end. Run the smallest tank you can. Use OEM filters not aftermarket.

Not sure what part of Oregon you are in but the BRPs in Nor Cal go pretty cheap in winter. I've seen decent bikes for $2K and street legal ones with good parts for $3K. I'll PM you my email address if you want more help finding one.

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Thanks for your thoughts BUMP they had the bike listed for $4600 and because things are slow right now they are willing to part with it for the $3600 and maybe less, but it seems everything up here is high. The bike does have some aftermarket accessories on it. It has an Edelbrock and full Pro-Circuit T4 exhaust system. The dealer said that it is not DS eligible bike, if I could get it on the street my decision would be made, but the tree huggers up here are ridiculous. How does the low and mid range compare to a WR? Did you have a WR 400 or 450?

The pig is definitely not a KTM 300, but for me it works. I ride tight trails, open desert, a little tarmac, sand dunes and it is the best do it all bike I have found. Have not found anything I could not get it to do. Not saying it is the best at all the above, but for having to settle for owning just one bike I like it. The big bonus is the low maintainence and its proven reliability, it will bring you home. I have been toying with the idea of a KTM 530 though, electric start, better suspension, 40 pounds lighter and more ground clearance sounds pretty enticing to me. Whats everybodies thoughts on the 530 or 525 KTM?

Hey thanks for the experienced info. Just being in here for the few days I have has really helped. I just know that the XR's I have had, I have really enjoyed. But I figure the more info I can get from someone who has been on the 650 the better. Just curious how much a HRC kit goes for, and are they still readily available? I heard somewhere that they are getting tougher to get your hands on. But the reliability is where the XR's excel. I know the KTM are coming out with trick DS's but the price tag and parts are definitely something to consider. OK I am rambling thanks again! I am going to be patient until the right BRP comes along so let me know if you see a good deal arise in the near future!

What Bump said.

I only run the big IMS tank (4.6gl) when I'm DS'ing the bike on dirt road trips.

For tight woods I use 13/49 gearing. Yeah, it's a bit heavy, but with some finesse and muscle, I can pretty much go anywhere on the pig.

IMHO, the following is the perfect in-a-nutshell summary.

mamacone wrote:The pig is definitely not a KTM 300, but for me it works. I ride tight trails, open desert, a little tarmac, sand dunes and it is the best do it all bike I have found. Have not found anything I could not get it to do. Not saying it is the best at all the above, but for having to settle for owning just one bike I like it. The big bonus is the low maintainence and its proven reliability, it will bring you home. I have been toying with the idea of a KTM 530 though, electric start, better suspension, 40 pounds lighter and more ground clearance sounds pretty enticing to me. Whats everybodies thoughts on the 530 or 525 KTM?

HRC kit still available. Price from $800 to $1100. Doesn't include the head porting I mentioned. Does include HD cam chain and tensioners and clutch springs. Run the Team Honda setup and jetting the carb is a breeze. HRC piston must be milled. Adds vibration. Power jump from HRC cam to ported head to HRC piston is about the same gain each time. Personally, I stay away from the cheaper imitation cams. You'll lose the auto-decompress for one thing.

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Hey thanks for the experienced info. Just being in here for the few days I have has really helped. I just know that the XR's I have had, I have really enjoyed. But I figure the more info I can get from someone who has been on the 650 the better. Just curious how much a HRC kit goes for, and are they still readily available? I heard somewhere that they are getting tougher to get your hands on. But the reliability is where the XR's excel. I know the KTM are coming out with trick DS's but the price tag and parts are definitely something to consider. OK I am rambling thanks again! I am going to be patient until the right BRP comes along so let me know if you see a good deal arise in the near future!

Consider getting a Renazco seat. be honest with yourself about whether or not you are gonne be Henge in the attack position all the time. That OEM sit will Roid your arse...

Sorry Bump I am not familiar with the team Honda set up! I guess I could do a search, would that pull it up?

It's remarkably simple.
Precision Concepts suspension - Do the most you can afford. They are out of the Ti springs though. Look for it used on eBay or elsewhere but ask for exactly what has been done. A lot of people claim to have the full PC setup but in reality it's nothing more than springs and revalving. If you get all the extra stuff done then there is no KTM, Husky, BMW or anything else that will touch you except Steve Hengeveld on a weekend supercruise. The bike will stay glued and on track far faster than you are likely comfortable going. It will be very predictable and cush. If you can find a used ti spring that softens up the ride some. Precision Concepts was the Team Honda shop for the XR650R. At first they were for the B Team bike. Then either both or just the A Team. When they were the B Team bike the B bike was faster than the A bike.
HRC kit minus piston - You probably don't need the extra power and vibration. That said, I'm gonna do it soon. And I don't need it either.
Ported head - There's only one guy who does it. He's retired and often out riding. So you'll have to be patient.
Pro Circuit T-4 pipe and muffler/silencer
PC jetting
IMS 3.2 tank, possibly 4.6
BRP 1X triple clamp
Scotts damper if you need it
That's it.
If you are a smaller guy you could probably skip the triple clamp and the damper. Unless you are riding at night skip a light upgrade.

I really can't exaggerate the difference with the suspension and the HRC kit with the PC jetting. The bike is cush and stable at any speed. And it starts easily all the time. The power is amazing. Stock the bike is a turd IMHO. I wouldn't own it. But teh cam/pipe/porting combo unleashes the beast. The midrange is magical.

I'd add Evans coolant. That's a MUST DO.
Plus lighting if you NEED that. Remember lighting also means larger capacity stator.

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Sorry Bump I am not familiar with the team Honda set up! I guess I could do a search, would that pull it up?

Again Bump thanks for the info. Is your BRP dual sported or offroad only? Yeah I know upgrading the suspension is a huge plus. So did you say you were going to do the suspension soon or the HRC plus piston? Yeah I have heard the BRP until is modded is exactly that a PIG! Thanks!

The first time I rode one it was stock. And I was so disappointed. Plus it was the worst thing to start I'd ever been on. I worked on it some but never could figure out why it was hard to start. I even put a BD eStarter on it. Then I gave it a sort of a last chance and took it to Precision Concepts-which was 500 miles away at the time. They talked me into the suspension and the cam. Later I did the porting when I became friends with a couple of mechanics who worked on the team bikes. The timing was perfect and I got a lot of parts out of their racing boxes for my bike. Some they just gave me for free. Nice guys there.
I wish I had just bought the whole HRC kit instead of piecemealing it and installed it all at once. I would have saved some cabbage that way.

I have a couple of HRC pistons, one is new and milled for pump gas premium and Pemex. The other was only used for some dyno runs early on and then pulled after the dyno runs. I'm waiting to install the new piston until I have the rest of the HRC kit because I want all the related cam stuff too. I was thinking of building a 2nd bike so I was collecting a lot of parts. I have an extra ported head, new Ti spring (their last one for my weight), a piston, a 350 wattt stator, and so forth. But now my kids are starting to show an interest in getting on a little bike and I ain't a lottery winner.

As I recall the whole suspension job is well over a thousand dollars. Maybe close to 2k. It was a lot but it included the Ti spring. Don't be talked into the CR500 rear shock mod.

My bike is a 2002 that is street legal. I built it for long multi-day rides. I originally thought I might race it too and get back into that. But as my kids get older and all I've lost interest in racing. I grew up with it in LA and been around it most of my life. So it's not like I haven't already had my share.

You can do some of the suspension stuff yourself. There are how-to sites. Those are guys I know of but have not met. That will get you a lot of it. Probably enough if you are on a budget or are not racing. At the time I had the money and no time to work on it so I just had it all done. There seems to be a local flavor to suspension work. Racetech is popular in some places for example. I think you're better of with PC on this.

There's a guy named Gene on the Yahoo Group and I think I saw him on here as califxr or something like that. Solid guy. Lots of VERY practical information from him for sure. I don't want to speak for him but I think he'd say the bike is huge fun stock. He has bought new, as in brand new XR650Rs, and raced them in Vegas to Reno and so forth. So I think he'd suggest that a trick XRR is the shit but don't let any of this advice about "necessary" mods from me or anyone else stop from just getting out and enjoying yourself. The only exception to that IMHO is the jetting.

You might wait for a trick bike to show up. They do about once a year. There was one on eBay several months ago that had it all, all the work was done in the PC shop, even had some of Campbell's own stuff on it. I think it went for around $7K+. (The guy had two of them-chasing a dream with his son I think he said.) Which is a lot. But when you are considering starting with a bike that is nearly $5k, you'll be past 7 real soon.

I hope that helps!

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Again Bump thanks for the info. Is your BRP dual sported or offroad only? Yeah I know upgrading the suspension is a huge plus. So did you say you were going to do the suspension soon or the HRC plus piston? Yeah I have heard the BRP until is modded is exactly that a PIG! Thanks!

Very good help, is there anything that I should look to do with the suspension right away that will be less than 2K? Fork springs or fluid, or I am just better off to send the forks to PC? So why can you not get the TI springs anymore? So the stock suspension is that bad? I have committed to a bike here I pick it up on Saturday, I will post it when I get it, but I am just looking forward to getting back into an XR, and over time I will slowly learn about decide on what upgrades I am going to go with. I just want a bike that is durable and fun enough over time to hang on to and upgrade along the way, and I think the BRP is the bike for that. I am going over to a friends house to test ride his before I take the plunge. Hope all my jumping around makes sense, just get intrigued trying to learn as much about the bike as I can, so I can be ahead of the game. Thank you!

There are a couple of good bikes posted on teh Yahoo group today.

If you are racing or riding very fast you need to do something to the suspension. What depends on your budget.

The Ti springs were a special run that Eibach did for Team Honda.

Stock suspension is OK unless you start wicking it up. Or it is setup wrong or for someone very different than you.

I sent you an email but got no reply.

Looking forward to seeing your new scoot!

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Very good help, is there anything that I should look to do with the suspension right away that will be less than 2K? Fork springs or fluid, or I am just better off to send the forks to PC? So why can you not get the TI springs anymore? So the stock suspension is that bad? I have committed to a bike here I pick it up on Saturday, I will post it when I get it, but I am just looking forward to getting back into an XR, and over time I will slowly learn about decide on what upgrades I am going to go with. I just want a bike that is durable and fun enough over time to hang on to and upgrade along the way, and I think the BRP is the bike for that. I am going over to a friends house to test ride his before I take the plunge. Hope all my jumping around makes sense, just get intrigued trying to learn as much about the bike as I can, so I can be ahead of the game. Thank you!

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Very good help, is there anything that I should look to do with the suspension right away that will be less than 2K? Fork springs or fluid, or I am just better off to send the forks to PC? So why can you not get the TI springs anymore? So the stock suspension is that bad? I have committed to a bike here I pick it up on Saturday, I will post it when I get it, but I am just looking forward to getting back into an XR, and over time I will slowly learn about decide on what upgrades I am going to go with. I just want a bike that is durable and fun enough over time to hang on to and upgrade along the way, and I think the BRP is the bike for that. I am going over to a friends house to test ride his before I take the plunge. Hope all my jumping around makes sense, just get intrigued trying to learn as much about the bike as I can, so I can be ahead of the game. Thank you!

If you are on a budget this is what I would do with the new bike to be used for tight trails.

1) strip and grease all the rear suspension because Honda only put a thin coat of emulsion in there. It's an easy to do when everything is free but once it starts to corrode it is the worse job ever.
2) Change the front sprocket to a 13. The pig will pull high gears but I found it almost impossible to get moving on step slippy slopes.
3) Drill out the front fork compression valve and change to 2 or 3 weight fork oil as per this site
http://borynack.com/XR650R/xr650r_forks.htm I did not change any shims in the shim stack as I was impatient to try the mod.
This made an absolute difference when riding over loose rocks. Without doing this mod my XR would have been left sitting in the garage or have been sold. I am sure that a professional suspension expert would make further big improvements but this mod was free other than the oil.
4) Sort the jetting and float height out on the carb. My carb flooded every time it went on the side stand etc. I fitted the 68s pilot and also blanked off the small atc hole adjusted the float height. I can now start it with ease when it has been on it side using a variation of the different techniques and it pulls well through the rev range. It was already fitted with a 175 main jet.
I do however struggle to start it when it is hot and stalls on steep slippy slopes. Yes I can get it started but I really would rather it had not stalled (this generally happens after bumping it up a rock or mud step) and that I did not have to go through all the hassle of clearing it out etc.
This is why I have succumbed to the recent ad by feelerguagephil for the edelbrock carb . The promise of a carb that does not flood has tempted me my first real $ spend on the bike and I am looking forward to put it to the test.

That is about it really, I do use it on hard roads but only to get between trails so I have no need for luggage, The standard plastic sump guard has been great it is only showing damage underneath from skidding over rocks otherwise it has taken all the hits without real damage.
Still looking for the perfect front tyre, my pig seems to eat the soft knobbly ones before and after drilling the compression valve. Next I am planning on trying the Dunlop 606 or 9?? that a lot of the 990 orange riders use off road.
I bought a IMS 4 gallon tank but I prefer to use the standard tank and divert my ride for frequent fuel stops because I could really feel the extra weight of the full IMS tank in the way the bike handles.
Good luck

This is good advice. All DIY too!

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who is warning about the challenge of loading up the bike with gas. When my bike is full (IMS 4.6) I am really leery of power sliding it. But at the end of the tank of gas it feels like a nice little YZ125 2-stroke and I am comfortable treating it as such.

Hew wrote:

"Thumper"GUY wrote:Very good help, is there anything that I should look to do with the suspension right away that will be less than 2K? Fork springs or fluid, or I am just better off to send the forks to PC? So why can you not get the TI springs anymore? So the stock suspension is that bad? I have committed to a bike here I pick it up on Saturday, I will post it when I get it, but I am just looking forward to getting back into an XR, and over time I will slowly learn about decide on what upgrades I am going to go with. I just want a bike that is durable and fun enough over time to hang on to and upgrade along the way, and I think the BRP is the bike for that. I am going over to a friends house to test ride his before I take the plunge. Hope all my jumping around makes sense, just get intrigued trying to learn as much about the bike as I can, so I can be ahead of the game. Thank you!

If you are on a budget this is what I would do with the new bike to be used for tight trails.

1) strip and grease all the rear suspension because Honda only put a thin coat of emulsion in there. It's an easy to do when everything is free but once it starts to corrode it is the worse job ever.
2) Change the front sprocket to a 13. The pig will pull high gears but I found it almost impossible to get moving on step slippy slopes.
3) Drill out the front fork compression valve and change to 2 or 3 weight fork oil as per this site
http://borynack.com/XR650R/xr650r_forks.htm I did not change any shims in the shim stack as I was impatient to try the mod.
This made an absolute difference when riding over loose rocks. Without doing this mod my XR would have been left sitting in the garage or have been sold. I am sure that a professional suspension expert would make further big improvements but this mod was free other than the oil.
4) Sort the jetting and float height out on the carb. My carb flooded every time it went on the side stand etc. I fitted the 68s pilot and also blanked off the small atc hole adjusted the float height. I can now start it with ease when it has been on it side using a variation of the different techniques and it pulls well through the rev range. It was already fitted with a 175 main jet.
I do however struggle to start it when it is hot and stalls on steep slippy slopes. Yes I can get it started but I really would rather it had not stalled (this generally happens after bumping it up a rock or mud step) and that I did not have to go through all the hassle of clearing it out etc.
This is why I have succumbed to the recent ad by feelerguagephil for the edelbrock carb . The promise of a carb that does not flood has tempted me my first real $ spend on the bike and I am looking forward to put it to the test.

That is about it really, I do use it on hard roads but only to get between trails so I have no need for luggage, The standard plastic sump guard has been great it is only showing damage underneath from skidding over rocks otherwise it has taken all the hits without real damage.
Still looking for the perfect front tyre, my pig seems to eat the soft knobbly ones before and after drilling the compression valve. Next I am planning on trying the Dunlop 606 or 9?? that a lot of the 990 orange riders use off road.
I bought a IMS 4 gallon tank but I prefer to use the standard tank and divert my ride for frequent fuel stops because I could really feel the extra weight of the full IMS tank in the way the bike handles.
Good luck