02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

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02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:09 am



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02 honda xr650r

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i try to kick start the engine an am experiencing binding that stops the kick starter from turning the engine over. after some research I found that the binding is occurring between the 36/24 tooth gear connected to the kick starter and the 35-tooth idler gear that connects the kick starter's momentum across to the clutch basket.
close up

the problem is that the teeth of the 24/36-tooth gear don't marry with the 35-tooth idler pinion. the result of this miscarriage is binding.
bad engagement

all of the pieces are present and installed properly and all of the bearings work as they should.
all of the parts have been ordered from Honda and everything fits flush and as it should. i am at a total loss for what can be causing this mismatch
any ideas, suggestions or theories..?
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  BuRP on Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:09 am

Worn bushing #6 ???
Or worn basket-bush, replace it anyway!
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:22 pm

thanks BuRP, for the reply but no, the bushing is new and there is no play in the bearings or shaft.
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  AURORA on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:30 pm

Did this problem just occur or did you just buy this bike?
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:34 pm

bought the bike and have been putting the pieces back together. all of the parts are new or practically new.
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  AURORA on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:59 pm

Do all the shafts line up when the cases are put together?

So, you bought the bike in pieces?
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Thu Nov 14, 2013 12:06 am

yes, i bought the bike from a family member in pieces but i have previously ridden the bike but have not had the bike in running condition since i have taken ownership of it.

everything lines up as it should and the cases close. i have no reason to believe the shafts are out of align but where can i find a list of the distance between shafts?
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kickstarter

Post  temporary kiwi on Thu Nov 14, 2013 5:43 am

so with the cover installed but without the crank to clutch gear installed will the kickstarter function?, the cover has a bearing in behind the seal that the k/start shaft revolves on , is this freely turning with the shaft sitting in it?, i.e if the bike was a running proposition prior to its disasembly , then there has to be an incorrect assembly somewhere, isolate till you find the exact part that binding, the two gears shown in the video will have excessive play until the shaft is supported by the cover/ bearing, hope this is of some help

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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  Mauser on Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:02 am

temporary kiwi wrote:so with the cover installed but without the crank to clutch gear installed will the kickstarter function?, the cover has a bearing in behind the seal that the k/start shaft revolves on , is this freely turning  with the shaft sitting in it?, i.e if the bike was a running proposition prior to its disasembly , then there has to be an incorrect assembly somewhere, isolate till you find the exact part that binding, the two gears shown in the video will have excessive play until the shaft is supported by the cover/ bearing, hope this is of some help
I think your spot on with the above statement, the spring will force the gear/shaft out of mesh until it is supported on the case bearing....I think you have another problem elsewhere causing the problems, have you checked the case bearing is free running ?....
Would have thought it impossible for Honda to make the shafts out of line by the amount shown, even using cases fromdifferent engine parts you would only be microns out ?.

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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Sun Nov 17, 2013 10:02 am

i made two short video to help problem solve further.


Binding


Engine rotation
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  Mauser on Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:05 pm

Whats the back of the clutch basket like ?...weird problem looks like it locks up when adding the basket what else engages when you push it on ?.

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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:25 am

nothing unusual on the back of the clutch basket, i.e. no warping or physical damage. i checked and the clutch basket is more-or-less perfectly round.
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  BuRP on Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:12 am

Here's a curved ball: you're 200% sure the kick-assy is from this motor, and not say from a 600???
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  Mauser on Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:11 pm

Spoken to Paul @ 650R.co.uk and he thinks Honda have supplied wrong parts somewhere along the line ?....double check everything !!!

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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  freelancethink on Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:29 am

i think there is a connection between my problem and this.

http://www.xr650r.us/issues/13.shtml
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  BuRP on Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:06 pm

Nope, don't think so - although it would be a good idea to renew it in any case.
If the clutch-bush would throw your basket 'out of centre' then the primary drive (crank2clutch) would be affected too, and you've been awfully quiet about this thus far.
The 'non-matching' of the kicker-gear can only be caused by an off-centre bush (#6, but you said it's fine) or by a too-small part..... hence my Q above, and Mauser/Paul also seem to think this way.
You missed me asking "200% sure" or did you? BRP smile 
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

Post  AURORA on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:55 pm

Mauser wrote:Spoken to Paul @ 650R.co.uk and he thinks Honda have supplied wrong parts somewhere along the line ?....double check everything !!!
+1 Frustrated 
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Re: 02 honda xr650r kickstart binding not spinning with video

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