MA$TER_E's Project Beasty

Are those tires off a Huffy?

ooeddym wrote:Are those tires off a Huffy?

Oh yeah, eat my dust

So you realy love the GPS tech then

So the awesome weather here is making the dirt bike'n sickness set in

I broke down and bought a new set of 606's and tubes to replace the Shinko 700's and my old tubes after getting a flat in the middle of nowhere and having to take a nap in the woods waiting for rescue. Anyway, Now I just bought a little performance goodie off E-bay I'm very eager to run. There's a lot of posts on the internet but nothing here. I searched and searched and came up with nothing So I'll do my little seat of the pants testing when it gets here then do a full blown report on my findings.

This coming weekend I may even have some GoPro footage of some OHV riding to share. I hope to be riding with the new performance goodie and 13/50 gearing Should be a rocket ship!

Greetings all you XRR weirdo's

Hope the getting ready for summer has been paying off for you all. I've sure been busy in the garage tinkering with the beast. I must say I am extremely happy with my XR right now. I've thought about a cam and/or a TM40 pumper but she's running so good right now I don't want to screw with anything.

I've been swapping parts with Eddy trying to figure out his mind boggling stutter issue. That's when I figured out the biggest issue with my bike. The previous owner epoxied the crap out of a hole they weren't supposed to in the carb. That's why my jetting has been ridiculous. Everyone was saying 68s is the sweet spot for the BRP and you'll love it. I hated it and it made my bike run like crap. Well, this was why. She runs great now and jetting is perfect, not to mention I get much better fuel economy now.

BEFORE and AFTER


After that I spent some time on the webernet just reading up more on the BRP, particular about CDI units. I read up on what kind of performance advantages you get with an XR400 CDI. Not just any XR400 CDI, a pre 1997 model 2650 CDI. Well, everyone wants one and they're impossible to find. The prior emissions control 2650 CDI advances the timing a bit and increases the rev range by about 1000rpm, not that I really need that. But man this made the pig purr like a cheetah at idle. One dude had one on Ebay and obviously new what he had, price tagged over $250 bucks! Well I got lucky and found a guy parting out an XR400 and didn't know that this particular CDI was like gold and snagged it for a very reasonable price. The post 1997 CDI does advance the timing a bit over the OEM 650 CDI but it has been neutered a bit for emissions which means Eddy's XR400 Model 2740 CDI isn't as awesome as mine!




Left to Right: My XR650 CDI, post 1997 XR400 CDI, pre 1997 XR400 CDI


Next I starting researching how much a ticket is for not having a spark arrester in your exhaust pipe. One thing lead to another and before I new it I scored a sweet deal on a full Big Gun system. Holy crap! I repeat, HOLY CRAP! did this add a ton of low end and mid range power. My mind was absolutely blown and damn near looped it taking it out in my neighborhood. The power a full pipe adds is amazing. Love the look, love the sound and love the power. Unfortunately, I abuse the power which translates to excessive rear tire ware but the wheelies are worth it!





Between removing the epoxy from the carb, advanced CDI and a full system I'm blown away at how nice the beast is running. I'm sure the TM40 would improve it even more but until I have issues or I come across a deal I cant refuse I'm going to hold off on that for a while. I'm going to have to post some video soon. I keep saying I will but messing around with the GoPro while out on a ride and screwing around with editing and posting is a huge time suck. I have all kinds of other fun things I'm finishing up and videos are low on the totem pole.

Sssshhhhhhhh, keep this on the DL but I've almost got my track bike done
This was the first time all the plastics have been completely installed since they came back from paint. Everything is looking drop dead sexy and am very happy with it so far.

Went from this... The end of my asphalt assault days...


To this... Ugly but functional track only machine...


To this! Drop dead sessy trackbike! Bazzaz FI, Quick shift, traction control, speedo healer, geared, smog plates, bmc air filter, servo eliminator, M4 pipe, attack rear sets, braided lines and a bunch of other tiny things!


Cheers everybody!

Does anyone know what is the difference between the pre97 XR400 CDI and the Xr's only performance CDI ?
Someone told me once that the Xr400 allows to rev the engine higher , nothing else , that was not what i was looking for ( i dont like to rev it to the red zone as it feck the engine fast ) , but after reading this i am wondering how much better does the engine run ( in low and mid revs ) with XR400 CDI , and if its worth the money .

The unit from the 400 with number 2650 does work, a bit more grunt and mids. Does nothing for idling though Master, check yourself by swapping back. It lifts the ceiling by 1000/min as the 400 is smaller but this ain't a problem unless you are going to use it on purpose.
Never heard a report on XRsOnly's unit - ask them?


Edit: Frosty, you ever have bounced the pig off the limiter? If so you're indeed mad, and if often do not get one. Otherwise no prob. Mauser's good in finding stuff, the man's wired well, so maybe ask him nicely? He found mine, just saying...

I’m not sure about the xr's only cdi but the research I did regarding the 400 cdi compared to the 650 cdi shows that the timing is advanced on the 400’s low end of the rpm spectrum (4-6deg) and as you go up the rpm range the 400 cdi timing comes in line with the 650 cdi so on the top end they are timed the same. I also did the 400 cdi on my bike, the one I purchased was a 98 model, I immediately found that the idle was much smoother it was easier to start and the throttle response on the lower end was crisper. It felt like the engine came more to life in the lower half of the rpm range. I definitely recommend the 400 cdi mod. Master_E installed a big gun exhaust system and that made a huge bottom end difference, we swapped bikes during a ride and the first time I wacked the throttle the front tire immediately came up, it is a real beast and has a good exhaust note plus forest service legal with spark arrestor. Needless to say, my full big gun system just showed up on the door yesterday.

Actually Maus', got one yourself? Absolute zero offense intended neither implied, but the pro's would seem to suit your riding style like the proverbial glove!











(... and, it may help in, unintentionally of course, pure by chance and totally unprovoked, wheelying over say speedhumps or the like. If that proves addictive though get rid of it immediately, we cannot have that now can we?!!!)

No mate i dont rev it normaly , no need really the bike pulls nicely in the midrange , but it makes sense to me that the engine might run better with older CDI , the reason should be that the new Emmisions restrictions are forcing the manufacturers to find way around it and that is why the bikes are not setup for best performance and longevity but low emisions ( also the factory jetting , running lean = cleaner emisions + higher temps and more wear ) , the old CDI might have more performance oriented mapping , that does make sense to me .I am not after milions of horsepowers and sky high revs , just would like the engine to run at its best and last longer .

I alwasy thought the 400 CDI just did the upper rev limit and nowt else, it was the choice for the Moto guys to get their piggies going faster 100+ ?.
Don't see how your bike can start easier than mine ?, mine starts first kick so unless your starts without kicking it then something wrong with your set-up
Mines perfect the way she is, done about 100KM last few days down the lanes....amazing really as never went more than than 6 miles as the crow flies from home... but still racked up the miles...or should I say kilometers lol.
Did I mention clean bikes and knobblies rock

Mauser wrote:
Did I mention clean bikes and knobblies rock

Yes clean pig rocks the same way as being married for 40 years but the wife is still a virgin , or being a vine collector who does not like vine , and had never tasted one of his bottles

Had an EPIC ride yesterday. The weather was awesome and a TON and I mean a TON of things are finally done on the beast!

• Stage1 Hotcam
  
• TM-40 Pumper
  
• Supermoto Wheel Set
  
• Freshly Laced Dirt Hoops
  
• Rebuilt Shock
  
• Very Custom Dual 12v DC Wiring Harness
  
• Trail Tech X2 Dual Sport Light
  
• LED Blinkers and Tail Lights
  
• Hella Solid State headlight Relays
  
• XR's Only Vented Side Panels
  
• Man Racks Fender/License Plate Support
  
• New OEM Rear Fender
  
• New Stainless Brake Line
  
• 320mm Floating Brakes
  
• Ram Mounts for TrailTech/Garmin
  
• And I know I'm forgetting stuff...
  

It hasn't been all fun and games.  At one point I was so mad.  My Baja Designs electrical was totally screwed up and smoking, the carb was way out and not running right.  Nothing was going right and was pretty pissed off.   I don't think I've ever been that pissed off at a bike.  So that is how all these projects started.  I did not want to fuss with all this crap through the whole season so I jumped in and did it all right now.


The wiring is the big piece there.  I spent a month working on it and bought the fancy OE style ratcheting crimping tool, OE bullet connectors with the OE shields and made a pretty awesome wiring harness even using OE style PVC sleeving.  The headlight and any high current goodies run off of their own switched reg/rec and capacitor using a set of Hella Solid State Relays to fire high/low beams. The LED blinkers, tail and low current electronics run off their own switched reg/rec and battery.  Both Reg's are hung between the forks behind the new light and is very low profile.  The OEM harness has been GUTTED.  I removed everything that was not critical and couldn't be happier with the results of all the wiring.



I'm figuring out why people complain about tuning the TM-40.  What a P-I-T-A! I started off with jetting everyone recommended and it was SUPER lean.  Like idle for 60 seconds and the headers could be seen glowing from space lean.  So for the sake of my sanity and the inevitable "You're jetted like a retard" comments I'm going to keep my jetting to myself until it's dialed just right.  But lets just say its WAY richer than anything I've found on the forums.  But as is I'm getting 38mpg!   Super happy about the 170 mile range.

BUT, the suspension is finally working together, electrical is dialed, carb is getting there, wheels are awesome.  I'm really looking forward to doing some more riding this year!



Especially on my new toy.      I JUST bought a CRF450R. (see my video of getting run over the second time I rode it)  I've even changed the oil more times than I've ridden it.  So go figure, now I need to sell it.  Because I just bought a CRF450X that has a license plate.  The ultimate dual sport/OHV bike.  Its the one in the middle. Oregon Law won't let you plate anything that is for off road use anymore.  Back in 2005/2006 you could.  Then they changed the laws and any bike that has been converted is grandfathered in.  So they are very rare, hard to find, expensive and AWESOME!
 


Here, watch this shmuck pull some sloppy wheelies   


Cheers!

 

So , what is the jetting then ?   

Mad Frosty wrote:So , what is the jetting then ?   

Hehe, the jetting is currently   

  

MA$TER_E wrote:

Mad Frosty wrote:So , what is the jetting then ?   

Hehe, the jetting is currently   

  

I think that actually means he has messed around with it soooooo much he gave up recording what was in it and now has NO IDEA!!!  

SkidMark wrote:

MA$TER_E wrote:

Mad Frosty wrote:So , what is the jetting then ?   

Hehe, the jetting is currently   

  

I think that actually means he has messed around with it soooooo much he gave up recording what was in it and now has NO IDEA!!!  

I'm on page two of my jetting notes for 

• Pilot Jet
  
• Pilot Air Jet
  
• Air/Fuel Screw Turns
  
• Needle
  
• Needle Jet
  
• Needle Clip/Shim Position
  
• Main Jet
  

I will say that it is really close though.  Rode 130'ish miles yesterday and it did pretty good.  Just a little more tuning.  Thankfully jetting this carb is so easy.  Love not having to pull the carb off the bike.

So Have you finished the carb tuning , what jetts are you running now ?
( i am obsessed with carbs      )

I put the control rod back in for the accelerator pump and my jetting is totally screwed...  Had to pull my tank mid ride and remove the rod because it ran so terrible.  Going to have to put my OEM tank on and just ride around all day tuning...


Graphical depiction of what tuning this carb is like...

Nope Ma$ter,

put it back - and adjust it!
It has to start moving say some 1.5mm (= adjustable) off closed, and stop moving when say 1/3rd of the throttle open (= also adjustable).
In other words, you do NOT want to start squirting right off closed, and you do NOT want to keep squirting when over 1/3 open.
Easy as pie.... make that a steak & kidney please  

BuRP, you're killing me buddy.  I'm not a dolt. Firstly, I did a ton of research and you're correct, 1.5mm off closed and 1/3'ish of throttle is normal, depending on your jetting its a great place to start.  Secondly, the limit screws were the very first thing I started tweaking.  Unfortunately my jetting is a bit rich WITHOUT the accelerator pump, so adding it was way richer than I thought it would be.

I am learning a lot about how this carb works and combinations of jetting.  Pilot Air Jets, Pilot Jets, Fuel Screw Turns, Needle Jets, Needles, Clip Positions & Shims Main Jets, Accelerator Pump Nozzles, Accelerator Pump Limit Screws.  There is a lot to tune.  

Unfortunately, I did spent a little too much time tuning my carb without the pump.  But now I know a lot about the jets and how to use combinations of them to work together.

This carb has so much adjustability its ridiculous.  Read this VERY carefully and think about the combinations and what they can do for/to you.

Tuning Manual wrote:The pilot and pilot air jets have slightly different
effects on mixture strength within the effective tuning range
of the pilot system (0/0 to 1/4 throttle). When you change
the pilot jet, it has a slightly greater effect on mixture
strength at zero throttle than it does at 1/4 throttle. On the
other hand, when you change the pilot air jet, it has a
slightly greater effect above 1/8 throttle that it does below
that setting.

If your engine has slightly soft acceleration just as
the throttle is raised from the idle position, the size balance
between the pilot jet and pilot air jet may be incorrect.
If the softness is more pronounced when the engine is at
normal running temperature, install a larger (leaner) pilot
air jet. If there is minor coughing or “popping” through the
carburetor when the engine is cool, install a smaller (richer)
pilot air jet.

http://www.mikuni.com/pdf/hs40_manual.pdf

Pilot 27.5 (above 1750m try a 25)
Airjet 1.2 (1.1 is definitely too small)
Main 140
Jet needle 9DJY1
Needle jet Y4 (is most common, a Y6 seems to cure a weakish middle if you've got big-bore headers)
Needle clip 3 for starters play with + or - 1, then finetune with +/- 0.5 (the washer, under or over)
Pumprod setting as per mine above, and the squirter jet is a 50 if memory serves well, however an 80 also works fine.
This should bring you a screw-setting of 2.5 turns or VERY close to it! On this, if over 3 or less than 2 something's amiss, and I'll bet that those who have this have the 1.1 airjet in it... and it's too small for our engine.

Anything else Ma$ter?
 


And no, the rod activated (correctly that is!) does NOT affect the jetting at all.
Zilch!
Nada!
Oh wait, yes, it does.... if you've jetted it too rich, which a lot do who try to ride the bike instead of determining what the jetting has to be - nudge nudge bru, it must stumble a bit to a lot (at low openings) when jetting a pumper without having activated the pump.

"it must stumble a bit to a lot (at low openings) when jetting a pumper without having activated the pump."

This bit is the reason why a (properly jetted!!) TM40 is more efficient with fuel than the std carb is - and it most certainly is too!
The mix is more close to 'perfect' ie leaner than the std carb (also perfectly jetted) delivers, for the simple reason that the std carb has to deliver a bit richer mix to allow the motor to react on an increasing throttle opening without stumbling. This it does too, especially in the lower 1/3 of the range... for it lacks a pump, it has to.
The pump does two things:
- first it richens the mix over ideal during acceleration as this makes more power than an ideal mix
- and it compensates for the inertia of the fuel-column present in the main mixture tube (below the needle jet) which has to increase in speed, as otherwise the mix would temporarily turn 'too lean' hence a stumble.
It follows that during acceleration a bit richer mix & more power is produced until things 'settle' (throttle opening constant or large enough with a good airflow already, therefore a strong enough vacuum in the venturi to control things without the aid of the pump).

Manuals don't tell all, trust me on this bit at least   

Don't take this the wrong way but ya know BuRP, some times you come off as a bit of a  I know you probably don't intend to but you do.  I really appreciate you sharing your jetting though and do value your feedback.  You're jetting really surprises me and confirms that I'm most definitely on the right track as I've done most of this tuning by myself. My carb shipped "pre jetted for an XR" which was so lean that you could see my headers glowing from space after 30 seconds of idling.  So I started tuning until it idled right then proceeded from there.

Big Gun Full Exhaust, Stage 1 Hotcam, Opened Air Box, ~2500 feet (762m)

MY CURRENT TM40 JETTING IS?
Nearly identical to yours! LOL, So I'm not just jetting the bike to ride unless you are!
  
Pilot  =  27.5
Air Jet  =  1.2
Needle  =  9DJY1
Clip  =  3rd
Needle Jet  =  Y-4
Main  =  145

But putting the pumper rod in totally made my bike run HORRIBLE.  EDDY! Confirm, this.  My bike runs great. Awesome even.  The rod turned my bike into a blubbering mess.  Without the rod, there is a small bog at the bottom end but its way better than the OEM carb.  It starts super easy, idles great and feels good throughout the RPM's.  Maybe I didn't get the end of the accelerator stopped quite right?  That one is a PITA to adjust with the 4.7G tank in the way.

But how can the pumper not have a single impact on your jetting?  I have an idea as to how it wouldn't but you said it

BuRP wrote:does NOT affect the jetting at all. Zilch! Nada!

Then didn't provide any explanation at all as to why.  You clearly have some good experience and knowledge about the carb. Please explain why this is.

Mine came from Power barn prejeted for my spec and altitude , i think it was 22,5 pj and 142,5 mj , third clip , wast majority of tm40 i have seen had this setup -
25pj , 140 mj , 3 clip - stock bike at sea level .
i have tryed the 25 and 27,5 pj and honestly there was nearly no difference , it just fell slightly crisper with the 25 at 2,5 turns at the adjustment screw , the carb was miles better than the stocker at iddle and low revs , the same as stock at the top ( last 1/3 ) , but just smidget weaker in the middle ( that is where the needle does the magick ) .
Since installing the full FMF system ( power bomb+ Q4 ) i have upped the MJ two sizes up to 147,5 but never tested the bike since so i cannot tell how it runs ( testing and fine tunning comming soon ) , it ran suprisingly well out of the box , it started first kick , Mick from Power barn got it nearly perfect so i did not bother to check the rest of the carb as it feels that it only needs some small adjustments . When i rode it the last time it felt like riding fuel injected bike it was so smooth , i could not stop smileing .   ( never touched the F Pump yet as it worked fine then , it might need some adjustments now as i have changed few things on the bike mainly the exhaust system ) .

MA$TER_E wrote:Don't take this the wrong way but ya know BuRP, some times you come off as a bit of a  I know you probably don't intend to but you do.  I really appreciate you sharing your jetting though and do value your feedback.  You're jetting really surprises me and confirms that I'm most definitely on the right track as I've done most of this tuning by myself. My carb shipped "pre jetted for an XR" which was so lean that you could see my headers glowing from space after 30 seconds of idling.  So I started tuning until it idled right then proceeded from there.

Big Gun Full Exhaust, Stage 1 Hotcam, Opened Air Box, ~2500 feet (762m)

MY CURRENT TM40 JETTING IS?
Nearly identical to yours! LOL, So I'm not just jetting the bike to ride unless you are!
  
Pilot  =  27.5
Air Jet  =  1.2
Needle  =  9DJY1
Clip  =  3rd
Needle Jet  =  Y-4
Main  =  145

But putting the pumper rod in totally made my bike run HORRIBLE.  EDDY! Confirm, this.  My bike runs great. Awesome even.  The rod turned my bike into a blubbering mess.  Without the rod, there is a small bog at the bottom end but its way better than the OEM carb.  It starts super easy, idles great and feels good throughout the RPM's.  Maybe I didn't get the end of the accelerator stopped quite right?  That one is a PITA to adjust with the 4.7G tank in the way.

But how can the pumper not have a single impact on your jetting?  I have an idea as to how it wouldn't but you said it

BuRP wrote:does NOT affect the jetting at all. Zilch! Nada!

Then didn't provide any explanation at all as to why.  You clearly have some good experience and knowledge about the carb. Please explain why this is.

Every bike is slightly different and what works on one might not work on another one , we have very similar bikes ( full Exhaust system , stg1 hot cams , ... )  but you are 2000 feet higher in altitude  so going by the book you should have smaller or identical pj to mine ,,,  so 27,5 seems too big plus you have issues when the AP is aplayed  so this tells me - "too much fuel" going in  ,  but i might be wrong