Clackety clack engine

Hello all.
Am new to the site, and apologies that our first meeting is with a bike problem. My poor pig is stuck in France in a barn.
Did a trip from London, got as far as the south of France, bike ran perfectly all the way. Checked oil regularly, all was well.
Started the bike on the 3rd day and engine was really clacking hard from the head.

Checked the valves, were way out, inlet had about 4-6mm clearance! Adjusted everything to spec, changed oil and filter (no particles anywhere), loud clackety sound is still there.

Have noticed that when trying to kickstart, the smoothness up until you hear the click of TDC has gone. The stroke is clumpy, but it still starts fine and runs, but with this very loud clackety sound.

Took off the valve covers and turned the engine round quickly from the flywheel, seems the loud click is coming from the rhs exhaust valve rocker. As the rocker comes up shutting the rhs exhaust valve it's like a metal clinking.

Not sure if its a sign of rocker damage or cam or valve spring. Engine only has 3500miles. Didn't want to risk riding it in case it seized.

Any advice would be very much appreciated. Need to arrange to go pick it up next week in a van (I live in Amsterdam), really want to get it back in tip top shape so I can plan my next trip.

Thanks all in advance!

Hello Dutchman

I cant help ya with that problem because im still a noob with XRs.
So i hope you can fix it good and cheap and let us know what it was pls.

greets from Emmen

Thanks mate! Ik zal u vertellen wat ik vind! My dutch isn't very good, but improving. rgds

Does your engine soud like the bike in this Youtube Clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GubUPbch-84


Can you post pictures of the valve stem and the contact pad of the rocker arm?

What is the condition of your cam chain and cam chain tensioner?

Is the decompression valve properly adjusted.

The auto decompressor system is mounted on the camshaft. To set the valve clearence on the righthand side valve lifter (this lifter operates the decompressor system) you have to make sure that the system does not work but that is difficult to see. The system is a kind of camlob located next to real camlob. So if the engine is not running or running below 500 RPM a spring pushes this, shall we say fake camlob, outside with a small spring. So when you start or are below the 500RPM the right hand side valve opens and closes in the same way the normal camlob opens and closes the valve. But because this fake camlob is a bit higher on the bottom side then the normal one the valve stays a bit open. When the engine starts running and is coming above about 500RPM the system is pushed back due to the centrifugal forces in its say normal position so not lifting the rockerarm. This sytem normaly works perfectly but after some years it can be blocked.
So to come back for setting the valve clearences on this rockerarm you have to make sure that you have the camlob in a position that the deco system is not lifting the valve. Remove the sparkplug and rotate the engine with your kick starter and just feel when the valve clearence, only for this valve, is the most and than adjust it to the right value. So the TDC point with all the camlobs facing down is nine out of ten not the best position.
The decompressor handle on your steer is lifting the same valve as above but then in the manual mode

Adjust the XR650R Valves


Checking and adjusting the valves on the XR650R is a simple procedure. Here is how.
Remove the seat and the tank from the bike to give you access to the top of the engine.
Clean around the valve inspection covers so there is no loose dirt.
Remove the valve inspection covers.
Remove the large left side engine cover to expose the flywheel and timing inspection marks.
Rotate the crank counterclockwise using the large bolt on the flywheel. Line up the “T” mark with the small notch at the top of the housing.
Wiggle the valves with your fingers. If they wiggle a little up and down then you are ready to check and adjust them. If there is no play in them rotate the crank again, match up the “T” and check again. The goal is to adjust the valves at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke. At this point all four valves will have wiggle in them.
One by one insert feeler gauges between the valves and the tappets to check clearance. Intake valve clearances should be 0.15mm +/- 0.02mm (0.006in +/- 0.001in) and exhaust valve clearances should be 0.20mm +/- 0.02mm (0.008in +/- 0.001in)
The feeler gauges should have a slight drag when slid between the valves and the tappets.
To adjust the valve put a closed end wrench on the tappet nut and crack it loose. Use a screwdriver to adjust the tappet up or down to increase or decrease the clearance. Once it is in the right position, tighten down the tappet nut to hold it in place.
It is often a bit fiddly to get the tappet set perfectly. It will sometimes spit itself a little bit when tightening down the nut. You’ll get the hang of it quickly.
I prefer to spin the engine over a few times then recheck and verify all the clearances.
That’s it! Put the valve inspection covers back on. Put the side cover back on. Put the seat and tank back on.
Go riding!

Yo Rebenga,

with your bike so far away from de Wallen I'd say do this:

- take the decompressor-cable off - off the lever on the head that is, and check if it fully returns under its springload. If it does goto next point, if not find out why not - and I bet you'll find the actual problem then.

- if the above is not the problem you'll have to dig deeper. The often-mentioned "auto decompression system" first of all is a ridiculous misnomer, it does nothing of this kind! This system ONLY comes into action when the crank REVERSES direction, ie when you turn it backward or, the real reason it's there, when the engine backfires! This is a 650, it'll break your leg when it backfires, so, to prevent this, Honda built-in this system which will lift hence open 1 exhaust valve (the left one) when the engine turns backwards, thus relieving any pressure into the exhaust. Obviously this will prevent bone-breaking forces on the kickstarter.
As a side-note: only the std cam and the hrc-copy cam (ground from a std cam!) have this system on, the so-called hot cams do not have it - which, therefore, are potentially dangerous cams!!!
As a result of this system adjusting the valves is a bit tricky - when busy with this NEVER turn backwards, not even for 'just a very little' as it will lift a valve, but only turn forward. You missed the marker? Turn forward again, never ever turn it backward.
Assuming you know all this I take it you are sure you followed the correct procedure for checking the valves? If so, then the next step is to take the entire valve-rocker cover off (het hele klepdeksel).
You will not upset any timing or misalignment, you can do this safely, putting back ditto.
With the cover off look at the rocker's surfaces, there where they run on the cams - any wear??
Also, the cams themselves, the lobes, any wear there?
If it wasn't the too-tight decompressor cable (first point, above) I hunch this will be your problem, an oilstarvation of some kind, and the cams/rockers are the first to go then.
If that's the case you need to trailer it home, lotsa work & Euros

Keep's informed here as to what you find?

Thanks to all who replied on this and sincere apologies for my delayed response. I'm actually going to pick up the brp end of Feb from the barn in France and bringing it back to Holland. Once back I will dismantle the head take plenty of picks and post for your expert opinions. I will get her running like a Swiss watch again and trailer it down to Italy to blast around the mountains at my parents in the south for a few weeks. Pasta, home made wine and BRP and plenty off road. Obviously first I need to get her running properly so will revert ASAP with all pics and details. I just hope the mice haven't moved into the carb and airbox as they did on another old bile of mine.....
Best regards to all! Ciao

What did you find wrong with your XRR?

Thanks all for the replies above and apologies for not replying after all this time, and Aurora, believe it or not, all I managed to do was get the bike back to Holland. Changed jobs twice (redundancy, great!) and had a baby (woohoo!) so not had time to go to the toilet to be honest! But have promised myself to get it sorted before summer and will go through all the above steps to check. Have only taken the head off and everything is nicely covered up in a warm garage..... Waiting! I promise to get to all to let you know what I find. All the best to all! Ciao

Hi to all,

got bike few months ago and finally after dual stator and such upgrades I went to do valve adjustment myself (newbie) reading manual. And my first BRP (all day) off road ride
with buddie.And must say I'm in Love :-)

Came home from ride and some other day I decided to look at valve adjustment (making sure on TDC looking through peep hole rotating wheel,engine cold,rocket loose,spark plug out, using 15mm intake & 20mm exhaust feeler).
It was all good until I touched manual decomp and loosened it up as it seemed too tight (no 5-8mm freeplay).

So loosened it down to about 8mm freeplay,and did valves again. Had to adjust it again

Then it started making this "claclety clack" sound from valves. Did check valves again. Start again and same sound. (I'm glad Ive had full tank,much easier to remove )

There is no power lose or anything. Reading here and elsewhere found it could be decomp. (as I adjusted it,or just doing valves adjustment wrong)

So I made movie:



and what I found when I sit on bike and turn front wheel to the right you could hear it more than when to the left.It seems to me as the sound bounce off of the front fender allowing me to hear it coming from left ex valve (where manual decomp is located)

Also I found after I shut engine that manual decomp was way looser. Now I have it ready for valve adjustment again,it's on TDC,EX cover off and I can tell that right EX is much looser than left one.Also manual decomp leveler has correct FREEPLAY of about 8mm????? 
And it seems like left EX valve has slightly less clearance than recommended 15mm.

What am I doing wrong? I wish I've never touched it,but how else would I learn?

Thanks

How does your bike run?
How much use on the bike?
Do the rocker arm pads make a flat contact with the valves?

When adjusting the valves, did you allow the engine to rotate backwards?


Do you have an exhaust leak between the head and left exhaust manifold?





Posted by BuRP:





Missed this, sorry.
I herewith copy&paste what I wrote on another forum, because I'm unsure if Focker is going to fock me up if I link it ;-)

Make sure the engine is cold.
Take off tank, and wash the engine's top & framebits as the bare minimum.
Take off the valve covers first, then take out plug (so the small bolts cannot fall into the cylinder - duh).
Put bike on a stand (jack, not sidestand), and put it in 5th gear.
Rotate the rear wheel forward - on this, do not EVER rotate it backwards
or allow it to turn back (block it with a piece of wood through the
spokes or whatever) as even a little of this will mess with the
auto-decomp system on this bike which will lift an exhaust valve!! So no
'back', nothing!
Turn rearwheel fwd until you've convinced yourself that first the intakes go down, then up, and next the exhaust valves do ditto (hey, you said 'noobies' )
Turn even more forward, but maybe slower this time, until you actually
notice that at a certain point, just when the intakes come up again, the
exhaust valves ALSO start to move - which is correct, any 4stroke does
this, not to worry.
Now rotate the wheel slow, very slow, until the exhaust valves are just
about at their deepest point... then stop rotating, and block the wheel
if necessary.
Now adjust the intake valves as per below.
To adjust the exhaust valves you turn (again, always forward only) the
wheel until the intake valves are somewhere at their deepest point. As a
sidenote, the exhaust valves are more difficult to reach on this bike,
less handspace available.

Adjusting valves.
Valveplay is to be: Intake: 0.15mm (0.006"), Exhaust 0.20mm (0.008").
The valves to adjust will have some play, they are loose, which can be
felt, so check this, move the rocker up & down - see? If no play
make sure (by rotating rear wheel forward, see above) that the other valves are quite a bit down if not fully down. If this is the case but you still feel no play then know you did postpone adjusting for too long, the play's gone... which is a bad thing.
However, there normally is a bit of play.
Take the correct-thickness feeler gauge and make sure it is spotlessly
clean - then try to slide it inbetween rocker & valve. They slide-in
best sideways, but find your own best way.
If it goes in - just - and feels not too tight but also not too
loose (this is experience which noobies do not have, sorry, however they
can learn this by doing all this often) then that valve is set perfect.
If either too loose or when the feeler gauge won't go in, undo the
locking-nut with a ringspanner (10mm, spotlessly clean - and only morons
use open ended spanners) whilst holding the actual adjuster with a
well-fitting screwdriver (which also is spotlessly clean). The idea is
to loose the nut whilst the adjuster stays where it is. Once loose wind
the nut a half turn up (more loose).
Now turn the adjuster with the screwdriver-only (yes, the nut will also
turn) until the feeler gauge just goes in & and can be slid to &
fro - just, tot too loose, not too tight.
Now hold the adjuster into position with the screwdriver whilst you turn
the nut tight - of course by sliding the screwdriver through the
ringspanner. Watchitnow, this only sounds easy, but in practise the
adjuster wants to turn with the nut when tightening it - and it may not turn!
Try, fiddle & try again, but get the nut locked whilst the feeler
gauge still just slides inbetween the adjuster & rocker. If this is
the case then the valve is set correctly... so proceed with the other
one(s).
How much torque for those nuts? Never mind the manual, they must be
tight whilst not over-tightened (refer remark above regarding
experience), but basic gutfeel will get you there. MIND though, it is
less than the force you needed to loosen them in the first place! There
is oil now inbetween you see, so this lubes the lot now. Apply a bit
less for tightening than for taking them loose.

If this all reads daunting then relax, there's a way to check yourself.
Say you 'think' you set the In's to 0.15 - because this size feeler goes in.
Good - does the 0.20 also go in?
It should not, so if it does re-adjust that valve, but a notch tighter this time.
Got a 0.18 feeler in the set? This one should not go in either, however
with enough force one can do anything... or cut your fingers LOL


Once you get handier with this, here's an idea. Next time, before you loosen the nuts, you first measure what the actual play is!
You may want to write this down for later, may come in handy. Valves
'move' you see, they normally become tighter over time (due to wear),
and at a certain point in life this goes quick to fast even... and this point
you want to notice, before it get really expensive. This is the time
where you take the top off, however, with your new bike this is a
loooong way to go still.

Have fun doing this. If you really will be doing this for the first time
I'd advise to, after having adjusted all, rotate the wheel again a bit,
and then check your own settings. If done correct it all will be fine,
but this will give you piece of mind. Also check all nuts before you
close her up - and if you turn one then you must re-adjust that valve again.

Thanks Aurora for reply

[quote="AURORA"]How does your bike run?

-bike runs great (little smoke on license plate from exhaust)

How much use on the bike?

-it's 2001 and I bought it few months ago.I haven't done much of use.

Do the rocker arm pads make a flat contact with the valves?

-Will check in a morning

When adjusting the valves, did you allow the engine to rotate backwards?

-Never,I have it on stand and rear wheel is about inch off of the floor,where I stick screwdriver once on TDC (looking through peep hole)


Do you have an exhaust leak between the head and left exhaust manifold?

How do I find that out?

Thanks

Did valves again. This time thanks to google more one guy wrote about inserting feeler in while tightening nut after adjusting the screw. I had adjust it so it wasn't right before.I've tried bigger feelers and they won't go in,so all is good.
Rechecked after few stroke cycles and all looks amazing.
Start and that sounds was almost gone,took it for short ride on street and sound started becoming louder again. Checked the decomp freeplay and it's WAYYY off!!!!!   

That sounds like the problem. What do I do about it?

Anyone has experience with this? Because I don't believe is incorrect valve adjustment at all.

added:going to check valves again once it cools down.And didn't see any smoke coming out of the exhaust by head

wow this is strange now,I pulled manual decomp all the way few times and it made this one loud click. Then I put ii back on stand,undid everything and while turning rear wheel to get to TDC I checked manual decomp and it is back on 8mm freeplay I adjusted it before  
added:And all valves are in correct setting now.

Is seems to me that if there is automatic and/or manual decomp,it does NOT let the Exhust valve (one on left?) to come back. Because I've heard this loud one time CLICK before actually while getting to TDC point, but I didn't pay attention.

Please I need help with this.

trying to figure it out I found on web that folks do get rid of automatic decomp,but this clicking noise comes from left side where manual decomp is located on left ex valve.Also how come there is so much free play on it after start,and then it comes back after few strokes when turning wheel while on stand getting to TDC to check valves again ???  

baachor wrote:trying to figure it out I found on web that folks do get rid of automatic decomp,but this clicking noise comes from left side where manual decomp is located on left ex valve.Also how come there is so much free play on it after start,and then it comes back after few strokes when turning wheel while on stand getting to TDC to check valves again ???  

Is the clicking noise heard when:

1) engine not running
2) you actuate the manual decompression
3) You then begin turning over the engine by slowly or fast kicking the engine with the kick start?
--------------
More constant pressure forcing the decompression valve closed with the engine running...i.e. more play.

Did you check for an exhaust leak?
What is the compression with the engine hot and cold? Just curious.
Do you think a valve is sticking? When you have the rocker covers off did you observe the movement of all valves while slowly turning over the engine?

AURORA wrote:
Is the clicking noise heard when:

1) engine not running
2) you actuate the manual decompression
3) You then begin turning over the engine by slowly or fast kicking the engine with the kick start?

-you probably mean the auto decomp loud tick when Right EX valve comes back?yes it is there,not sure what makes that clackety clack sound which you can hear when engine is running.But this time it's gone,I feel is either incorrect adjustment still,or something else

--------------
More constant pressure forcing the decompression valve closed with the engine running...i.e. more play.

Did you check for an exhaust leak?
What is the compression with the engine hot and cold? Just curious.
Do you think a valve is sticking? When you have the rocker covers off did you observe the movement of all valves while slowly turning over the engine?

1)I'm sorry I don't know how to check for exhaust leak.
2)I have to check tomorrow for compression difference.I did check valves today again by Chris' advice from http://www.advrider.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22765453&postcount=20 and found R EX was WAYY tight! So I loosened it up and clicking noise is almost gone.have to check it tomorrow once it cools down.
3)yes I was looking at valves while slowly turning (clockwise by Chris' advice) and they seems to work correctly

Have to find out how to check for exhaust leak. And check it all again tomorrow after work.

Thanks for your time!

I suggest making a visual inspection while cold to see if there's anything out of the ordinary, so you can focus on a specific spot or area when you do the soap test. Spray soapy water around exhaust manifold. Have someone kick motor over without starting motor ( not also try the test with engine running). Tissue paper is another way. You can also use a BBQ lighter. If you put the lighter around the pipe and the flame goes out, you have a leak. The air will blow it out. Also you should be hearing a tick sound.


Then I would start the bike and let it warm up to operating temp. Have someone else twist the throttle (example- medium throttle, hold 5 seconds, roll off throttle. repeat) to create torque on the parts, and CAREFULLY feel around when the throttle is on. Again, have someone else work the throttle so you can concentrate on finding the issue (and not burning the hell out of yourself). If you can be careful. use your hand with the engine running, move your hand around the gasket area and all joints. you can feel air movement. remember the air is HOT and the pipes are much HOTTER.

Last use a plastic/rubber hose about 2 feet long. one end to your ear, other end NEAR gasket/joint area but, it needs to be 1/2 inch or larger in diameter.
.

For the soap test, you just need a spray bottle- fill it with water and add soap. In my experience, dish soap works the best, and you have to use plenty of soap! The water will burn off almost immediately, but the oils in the soap will stick and you should see very rapid bubbling. Sometimes it's hard to determine whether it's an air leak or just the soap burning off, so you have to spray the hell out of it... watch... spray... repeat.

THIS WILL TAKE TIME, SO GO SLOWLY AND BE PATIENT.

good luck!

Thanks Aurora,

have to wait until the weekend,my XRL buddie is away.

What is strange that I was just checking it again and this f*king right EX valve is loose like hell.About 3/16  

That looks like auto decomp issue to me.

couldn't rest so I went and tried it for 100th time

and I've learned my lesson: too tight manual decomp that constant clicking which was coming from left EX bouncing off of fender when I turned wheel,that was it

now,still bit clicking from R EX,going to check again once cooled down. Maybe it's just old and I shouldn't expect it to sounds like new

hopefully last adjustment

Yes! one more last adjustment on EX valves,loosening of manual decomp some more and it's all running perfect (for its age  )

I will keep your advice in mind for next time. Thanks again

O'Yeah,

If you run a metal bash plate, (really not needed) the amount of sounds and noises coming from the engine will increase to make you think you have a problem.

 

thanx for your time Aurora  

The factory plastic bash plate is good to go.